Possible Narrow-lipped Helleborine (1 Viewer)

[kevtubb]

I found a lot of Helleborine's at Sheepleas yesterday and checked all those in flower for possible Narrow-lipped Helleborine.

The majority appeared to be Broad-leaved Helleborine (if not all) but there is this one plant that looks very good for Narrow-lipped Helleborine.

It was tricky to get some good photos of the flowers but here are a couple for review:

- Last five

For comparison I took some photos which I believe are Broad-leaved Helleborine:

- First three

Can someone confirm my ID?

Regards
Kevin

 

[Butty]

I wouldn't have thought so. The outer portion of the lower lip is broader than wide (rather than the reverse as in narrow-lipped helleborine), and I see a (faint) purplish wash to the base of some flower stalks (as in broad-leaved helleborine).

 

[kevtubb]

I wouldn't have thought so. The outer portion of the lower lip is broader than wide (rather than the reverse as in narrow-lipped helleborine), and I see a (faint) purplish wash to the base of some flower stalks (as in broad-leaved helleborine).

Can I ask what you mean by that? Why do the last two pictures IMG_5496.JPEG and P1120245.JPG show a very pointed lip - is this something that can occur in Broad-leaved Helleborine as well?

 

[Butty]

Can I ask what you mean by that?

By what exactly?

As I understand it, the key feature about the outer portion of the lower lip is as I indicated: its relative proportions (length v. width), not its pointedness. In broad-leaved helleborine the end of the outer portion of the lower lip is typically curled underneath/backwards, so not easily seen; in some of yours it isn't. The books describe this, and the picture in Wild Flower Key shows it.

 

[kevtubb]

By what exactly?

As I understand it, the key feature about the outer portion of the lower lip is as I indicated: its relative proportions (length v. width), not its pointedness. In broad-leaved helleborine the end of the outer portion of the lower lip is typically curled underneath/backwards, so not easily seen; in some of yours it isn't. The books describe this, and the picture in Wild Flower Key shows it.

Thanks - I'm not sure I quite understand but I will go with what you are saying - looks like I need to invest in another book - Wild Flower Key. I assume, then, that all my original photos are all Broad-leaved Helleborine?

Just to throw a slight curve ball - are you able to tell me if these are all Broad-leaved as well - no flowers this time!

 

[Butty]

Wild Flower Key is the single best book for a non-beginner botter. If all you're interested in is orchids, one of the orchid books would do you better.
All your original photos looks to me like broad-leaved helleborine.
2nd lot:
1-6. Pass. If you found them near lots of other broad-leaved helleborines it seems a fair assumption.
7-8. I guess broad-leaved helleborine.

 

[James Lowther]

I’m really no expert but the strong purple wash on the lip and pink edges to the upper petals on the subject flowers is good for BLH and (very?) bad for NLH I think?
James

 

[Acid John]

Kev this is my go to book.

It is really good.

 

[Acid John]

Wow, that is big.
As the actress said to the bishop