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Feel the intensity, not your equipment. Maximum image quality. Minimum weight. The new ZEISS SFL, up to 30% less weight than comparable competitors.

Premium (Alpha) vs Image stabilized (1 Viewer)

Conndomat

United States of Europe
Europe
A x10 - x18 IS bin will replace a mounted bin for many people who want convenience. If you like to hike to dark locations with a large scope and large mounted bins .....then good luck👍...... again, each individual has a choice of tools to use
Convenience and astronomy somehow do not go together, even a conventional refractor requires a stable and therefore heavy mount. When astronomers go to dark places they usually pack all the stuff in a car and drive there, a regular tripod for handheld binoculars won't make the cabbage fat either. By the way, I only need 10m. going into the garden, it's dark there, so IS binoculars wouldn't make sense to me at all.

Andreas
 

Conndomat

United States of Europe
Europe
Why not?
Homo Sapiens needs to belong. And for this is good to signal the membership. Binoculars can be a signal.
What do you have to belong to?
Which membership to which association?
A signal to whom?

I don't understand your post...sorry!

Andreas
 

Conndomat

United States of Europe
Europe
Here is an answer.
You won't believe it, but I studied social psychology and also work in the fields. Your link doesn't give me any new insights!

What I have a bit of difficulty with is making it compatible with the brand of binoculars.

If people need any brand to increase their self-esteem or to become a member somewhere, I like to leave this procedure to other people, I've been independent of it for a long time.

Again, I don't care if someone drives a Ferrari or a Fiat, I don't give a damn, I'm interested in the "naked" person.
Status symbols is for people who have no status. ;)

Andreas
 

Paultricounty

Well-known member
United States
You won't believe it, but I studied social psychology and also work in the fields. Your link doesn't give me any new insights!

What I have a bit of difficulty with is making it compatible with the brand of binoculars.

If people need any brand to increase their self-esteem or to become a member somewhere, I like to leave this procedure to other people, I've been independent of it for a long time.

Again, I don't care if someone drives a Ferrari or a Fiat, I don't give a damn, I'm interested in the "naked" person.
Status symbols is for people who have no status. ;)

Andreas
I like the person who drives the Ferrari because then I know I'm selling them a more expensive house and the commission is larger (=more toys or as wifey says retirement money). If the woman driving it is naked, all the better:ROFLMAO:.

Just funnin a little.

Paul
 

kimmik

Well-known member
United Kingdom
This was torn down for my curiosity, what components might be present to achieve IS.

Canon 18-135mm IS main logic board.

Circled are the IS components- gyros at the top (unmounted), relevant processors on the board, lens shifter mounted on silicone grommets.

For scale, the big square microchip is 9x9mm (0.3”x0.3”).

Everything has development cost yes, but this wont cost more than buck-o-five, in production.

3429E01A-8670-4999-AE61-E671E3EAF80C.jpeg
 

exup

Well-known member
United Kingdom
On the bins as a status symbol front. I walked into a hide in Sunday and caught up with a few reserve regulars and being the fool I am was quite glad I didn't have my slc's round my neck as I'd lent them to a mate for a bit, they make me feel like I'm overcompensating!
Paul might have had 3 hanging on his chest 🤪🥳🥺😱😂🤣 ..... a S, a L and a Z, just to cover all options.
 

Paultricounty

Well-known member
United States
This was torn down for my curiosity, what components might be present to achieve IS.

Canon 18-135mm IS main logic board.

Circled are the IS components- gyros at the top (unmounted), relevant processors on the board, lens shifter mounted on silicone grommets.

For scale, the big square microchip is 9x9mm (0.3”x0.3”).

Everything has development cost yes, but this wont cost more than buck-o-five, in production.

View attachment 1461541
Love it. Talking about driving home a point !😁
 

exup

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Love it. Talking about driving home a point !😁
What point?

An Apple iPhone will have a single board, with some chips! Try making one.

A 8x42 SF will have maybe 30-40 components, each will be inexpensive. The glass components will cost most, but still not hugh. Something like the 200g magnesium alloy body would likely cost no more than $20 if made in-house by Zeiss.
 

kimmik

Well-known member
United Kingdom
The point is, Canon’s margins are no less than Zeiss etc.

There is nothing “expensive” in an IS bino. The value is in the design, thus margin.

Whats the cost of the Canon 10x42 body? Is it magnesium alloy?
 

MiddleRiver

Well-known member
United States
This thread is off the rails, so I might as well add to it :)

I'm confused about the comments suggesting IS is no-big-deal in terms of cost. First, are we saying/suggesting that alpha binos are 'worth' $3k? I assume the profit margin - as in electronics - is quite high. Or is there something esoteric about making the glass - some unobtanium involved that justifies the atmospheric prices? Second, if the Canon's are near-alpha optically, is the price not appropriate given that another one-step-below Leica/Swaro/Zeiss bino of similar optical quality would be in same $ league?

I see it pretty simply: IS binos are not the best optically but appear to be quite decent, and suspect the IS contributes to the short warranty period. As is typical for virtually ALL electronics, it's the achilles-heel in terms of durability etc. Whether those components are cheap to mfg is irrelevant - they are more delicate, prone to failure due to shock, moisture, or just luck-of-the-draw.
 

exup

Well-known member
United Kingdom
This thread is off the rails, so I might as well add to it :)

I'm confused about the comments suggesting IS is no-big-deal in terms of cost. First, are we saying/suggesting that alpha binos are 'worth' $3k? I assume the profit margin - as in electronics - is quite high. Or is there something esoteric about making the glass - some unobtanium involved that justifies the atmospheric prices? Second, if the Canon's are near-alpha optically, is the price not appropriate given that another one-step-below Leica/Swaro/Zeiss bino of similar optical quality would be in same $ league?

I see it pretty simply: IS binos are not the best optically but appear to be quite decent, and suspect the IS contributes to the short warranty period. As is typical for virtually ALL electronics, it's the achilles-heel in terms of durability etc. Whether those components are cheap to mfg is irrelevant - they are more delicate, prone to failure due to shock, moisture, or just luck-of-the-draw.
100%
 

exup

Well-known member
United Kingdom
I was responding to exup.

He proposed Zeiss has too high profit margin. My point is Canon is no different.
That is unlikely.

Optics and body costs likely similar.
IS costs and development overhead add to the Canon.
Alpha warranty +20%.
Alpha marketing +20%
Canon 2/3rds of Alpha retail price or maybe even less.

So Alpha would be far higher mark-up.

I would be surprised if either a 8x42 SF or 10x42L cost each company more than £400...... I reckon less.

SF retails for ~£2300.
42L retails for ~£1600.
 
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kimmik

Well-known member
United Kingdom
Exup I actually agree with your numbers :ROFLMAO:.

is there something esoteric about making the glass - some unobtanium involved that justifies the atmospheric prices?

Yes, figuratively.

I have had maybe 100 pieces of non-alpha optics before getting to "alpha", including photography and astronomy related. Z/L/S didn't get there by chance.
 

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