Problem with green coating of EL SV 8x32 (1 Viewer)

[digiscope09]

I hope Swarovski has fixed this armouring issue. I have a pair of 2016 ELs, and they’re almost ready to be shipped back to Austria for the third time! The armor has consistently lasted around three years each time.

I feel like there are quite a few assumptions in this thread about the failure rates and what causes these issues. I don’t buy into the DEET, humidity issues, or the claimed failure rates (clearly, my personal failure rate is 100%, and many other Australian owners report the same). The mixed or lack of communication from Swarovski suggests to me that they don’t know the root cause either.

The climate I live in can be humid (subtropical), but it’s not humid year-round. I also never use DEET, rarely use sunscreen (I prefer to cover up), and always wash my hands after applying anything to avoid getting smudges on my glasses. I used to do a lot of pelagics but treat my binoculars very well, rinsing them after every trip.

Each time my armoring has disintegrated, it’s mostly restricted to the topside of the binoculars. To me, this strongly suggests UV damage as the cause. The underside is still like new. Surely, if humidity were the culprit, the damage would be much more widespread.

To make matters worse, Australian customer service seems to no longer exist… Maybe it’s time to switch to Zeiss?

 

[digiscope09]

I own two pairs, EL 10x42 10 years old and EL 8x42, 3 years old
No issue with the older version whatsoever which my wife now uses however the newer version has had a number of problems including eye cups jamming, rubber exit covers breaking in half, strap eyelets falling out AND the rubber armour turning to putty. It is not restricted to the top. Got sick of non response from Swaro Australia and emailed Austria head office. Within 10 days I got a response from Swaro Sydney to say I could send them in for repair with waiting time three months or longer. Representative said he would see if he could find me a loan pair while mine were being repaired and get back to me.That was four months ago. Calls to the Sydney number and left messages go unanswered.
Their Australian service used to be excellent. I have given up and have wrapped stretchy camouflage tape around them, which I find more comfortable anyway.
Both pairs of bins are kept in a dehumidifying cabinet to combat humidity as I live in the tropics.
I can also say that prior to purchase of the recent pair, I owned the Zeiss 8x42 which had some lens coating problems but which were fixed within four weeks.
However in comparing Zeiss with Swarovski, I have to say, the latter are ever so slightly sharper.

 

[Paultricounty]

I own two pairs, EL 10x42 10 years old and EL 8x42, 3 years old
No issue with the older version whatsoever which my wife now uses however the newer version has had a number of problems including eye cups jamming, rubber exit covers breaking in half, strap eyelets falling out AND the rubber armour turning to putty. It is not restricted to the top. Got sick of non response from Swaro Australia and emailed Austria head office. Within 10 days I got a response from Swaro Sydney to say I could send them in for repair with waiting time three months or longer. Representative said he would see if he could find me a loan pair while mine were being repaired and get back to me.That was four months ago. Calls to the Sydney number and left messages go unanswered.
Their Australian service used to be excellent. I have given up and have wrapped stretchy camouflage tape around them, which I find more comfortable anyway.
Both pairs of bins are kept in a dehumidifying cabinet to combat humidity as I live in the tropics.
I can also say that prior to purchase of the recent pair, I owned the Zeiss 8x42 which had some lens coating problems but which were fixed within four weeks.
However in comparing Zeiss with Swarovski, I have to say, the latter are ever so slightly sharper.

Amazing. Could you post a few pictures?

 

[digiscope09]

Amazing. Could you post a few pictures?

 

[phiba]

I feel like there are quite a few assumptions in this thread about the failure rates and what causes these issues. I don’t buy into the DEET, humidity issues, or the claimed failure rates (clearly, my personal failure rate is 100%, and many other Australian owners report the same). The mixed or lack of communication from Swarovski suggests to me that they don’t know the root cause either.

Each time my armoring has disintegrated, it’s mostly restricted to the topside of the binoculars. To me, this strongly suggests UV damage as the cause. The underside is still like new. Surely, if humidity were the culprit, the damage would be much more widespread.

On Swarovski Optik’s “myservice” webpage, they disclose that the armor used in the NL Pure and El series is TPU, i.e., thermoplastic polyurethane.

If you Google this material, you’ll find that there are different types of TPU with different properties, strengths, and weaknesses. One variety, polyester-based, is susceptible to hydrolysis (moisture) and microbials (bacteria, fungi, viruses, archaea, algae, and protozoa).

This would seem to be a bad choice for a binocular cover, but indications are that this is what Swarovski is currently using. Other types of TPU would be more resistant in these areas, but less resistant in others.

I inquired with Swarovski Optik North America (SONA) about this. They acknowledged that under certain conditions, there is a problem, and they are working on finding a solution. They said the degradation problem with the current material is not caused by DEET, but rather by accumulation of sweat, combined with heat. That is what suggests to me that the TPU is polyester-based rather than something else.

They said that new NL Pures are being manufactured with a different armor material that is not susceptible to accumulated sweat combined with heat. However, this transition is not being tracked by SN, and has not been extended to their other series, or their repair operations, although that is in the plan.

They said degradation can be mitigated by periodically washing the binocs with soap and water. However, it would seem if you do this and then put them away still wet or damp (and not only on the outside), hydrolysis could cause degradation. So the recommended cure might be causing the problem! Of course, this would be worse in humid climates.

Since SONA did not disclose to me what kind of TPU they are currently using, nor what they are switching to, I could be entirely wrong about this. For example, polyether-based TPU is susceptible to heat aging and adhesion strength, which could also explain what is happening.

Having just bought a new set of ELs myself, I am thinking the best approach, until they have a new more robust armor in place, is to clean them frequently with a damp cloth or gentle rinse, not submerge them or use high pressure water. Then, leave them out to thoroughly dry before putting them away.

SONA also assured me that if I do have a problem in a few years, by then the new armor should be fully proven and implemented in their repair operations.

TPU seems like it should be a suitable material for this purpose. It is also environmentally friendly and sustainable. I support Swarovski’s making this a priority in their business model. It is just a question of finding the best formulation for binocular use cases, and implementing it into their products and repair operations as quickly as possible. I hope other manufacturers are doing likewise.

 

[rodneyAB]

@digiscope09 post # 824. Your tape work is a great idea for an unfortunate situation. While reading this thread I have thought of such a fix, but I would never suggest such

 

[laurencejackson]

Wow...and those are only 3 years old???

 

[SGBirder]

It is just a question of finding the best formulation for binocular use cases, and implementing it into their products and repair operations as quickly as possible.

This is the part that has been lacking. This issue has been discussed for several years but its still not been fixed to date.

Only since last year did we hear about potential new material being looked into. And the lack of communication, clarity and consistency - some Swarovski sources deny the issue exists, some say that the new material is already in use (including for the repair on my ELs), yet now we are hearing the new material is not yet used for repairs.

 

[phiba]

I know I’m new to this game, but I’m happy to know these binoculars are as rebuildable as they are, and that Swaro is offering to do it, in many cases for free even after the warranty has expired. I have a few pairs of Leitz Trinovids that I still use and love, but for which parts and repairs are NLA.

 

[tenex]

I really don't see much sense in Swaro offering to replace your disintegrating EL armor with the same old material that will surely degrade again in the same conditions of use, in some cases within a couple of years. How difficult can it be to produce the new armor?

 

[dorubird]

I really don't see much sense in Swaro offering to replace your disintegrating EL armor with the same old material that will surely degrade again in the same conditions of use, in some cases within a couple of years. How difficult can it be to produce the new armor?

It seems to be difficult for Swarovski...laughable that it takes so long for such a big binoculars company!

 

[Yarkho]

I know I’m new to this game, but I’m happy to know these binoculars are as rebuildable as they are, and that Swaro is offering to do it, in many cases for free even after the warranty has expired. I have a few pairs of Leitz Trinovids that I still use and love, but for which parts and repairs are NLA.

Phiba, thanks for the information regarding armor composition. That is a substantial new information not available in the myriad posts before.

 

[Pim29]

Swarovski Austria told me about 2 months ago that incoming binoculars with armor problems will be repaired with the new armor material that should be more resistant to sweat, deet etc. I think by now all new models produced have the new armor.

 

[tehri]

Swarovski Austria told me about 2 months ago....

Everything they say about that matter should be taken with a pinch of salt... in my opinion !
This is all they have gained by not wanting to communicate !!

 

[Pim29]

Everything they say about that matter should be taken with a pinch of salt... in my opinion !
This is all they have gained by not wanting to communicate !!

Well they are a serious company that makes one of the best binoculars in the world. Most users have no problems with the armor, and it takes time to develop a new composition of the armor for their products. So I am glad that if I’ve got an armor problem Swarovski will replace it with an improved material. After all this company wants to use environmental friendly materials, as most of their customers are nature enthusiasts. It takes time to come to the best mix between durability and environmental impact of their binoculars. As long as they improve and replace the armor it’s ok with me. They replied to my message within 24 hours with an explanation and it’s very clear to me that if you buy a 2025 NL Pure you have the improved armor.

 

[tehri]

Well they are a serious company that makes one of the best binoculars in the world. Most users have no problems with the armor, and it takes time to develop a new composition of the armor for their products. So I am glad that if I’ve got an armor problem Swarovski will replace it with an improved material. After all this company wants to use environmental friendly materials, as most of their customers are nature enthusiasts. It takes time to come to the best mix between durability and environmental impact of their binoculars. As long as they improve and replace the armor it’s ok with me. They replied to my message within 24 hours with an explanation and it’s very clear to me that if you buy a 2025 NL Pure you have the improved armor.

I agree, but even a 'serious company' can make mistakes, even rarely...
and this great lack of communication is, for me, very serious and inexcusable, considering the high price of the 'Top Alpha' product !!
They can consider themselves lucky that no class action has been launched against them... (No information on purchase.... No communication... Discovery of the problem by consumers... No binoculars for weeks for repair... Anxiety for many about the occurrence of the problem... Disappointment and distrust established against the brand... Somewhat tarnished image of the label...)

Before, when I took my binoculars, it was only pure pleasure directed towards nature, towards the pleasure that this walk would give me... Now, it is still that, but polluted somewhat by this problem of 'pealing' !!... now, I take my binoculars, but most of the time inspect them quickly with this concern in mind !!... Something pollutes my pure pleasure... a big mistake from this prestigious brand !!!!

 

[phiba]

I really don't see much sense in Swaro offering to replace your disintegrating EL armor with the same old material that will surely degrade again in the same conditions of use, in some cases within a couple of years. How difficult can it be to produce the new armor?

At least owners have the choice whether to replace the armor now with the same material or wait until the new material is vetted and available for their model. That is better than having no choice. The binoculars can still be used if they decide to wait.

Developing solutions and thoroughly testing them to make sure they don’t introduce new problems takes time, especially for products that are used professionally worldwide in harsh environments. Something that works in the tropics might not work in the Arctic.

Responsive, transparent communication with customers is also important.

In case anyone is wondering, I don’t work for Swaro, and I only just bought my first set of their binoculars last week, so I may be naive in this case. I am basing my opinions on my 40+ years as an engineer.

 

[rodneyAB]

At least owners have the choice whether to replace the armor now with the same material or wait until the new material is vetted and available for their model. That is better than having no choice. The binoculars can still be used if they decide to wait.

Developing solutions and thoroughly testing them to make sure they don’t introduce new problems takes time, especially for products that are used professionally worldwide in harsh environments.

Responsive, transparent communication with customers is also important.

In case anyone is wondering, I don’t work for Swaro, and I only just bought my first set of their binoculars last week, so I may be naive in this case. I am basing my opinions on my 40+ years as an engineer.

I do not work for Swaro either. I have had service when needed from SONA, and I have nothing to complain about. Several threads here on BF provide the avenue for the many who have bad experience, and they can voice their complaints, and their opinions about the complaints.
I enjoy the use of several Swaro optics and though I sometimes get stuck on the complaint threads, I do not let the clouds of discontent occlude my enjoyment. Second day of Marine Layer and I'm on the computer and watching hummingbirds through the window...should be out walking the hills watching Harriers

 

[Barred Wobbler]

At least owners have the choice whether to replace the armor now with the same material or wait until the new material is vetted and available for their model. That is better than having no choice. The binoculars can still be used if they decide to wait.

Developing solutions and thoroughly testing them to make sure they don’t introduce new problems takes time, especially for products that are used professionally worldwide in harsh environments. Something that works in the tropics might not work in the Arctic.

Responsive, transparent communication with customers is also important.

In case anyone is wondering, I don’t work for Swaro, and I only just bought my first set of their binoculars last week, so I may be naive in this case. I am basing my opinions on my 40+ years as an engineer.

All the more reason why they should take the time to thoroughly test their chosen materials before they apply them to their already proven products and not quietly treat their customers as guinea pigs in the hope that it all turns out well and nobody notices the reduction in quality.

I see that they are still blaming sweaty palms for the problem, as if they expect the users of their very expensive product to endeavour not to let the coating come into contact with bare skin. Hardly an endorsement of the plastic they chose.

It also does nothing to explain why my 2016 ELs fell to bits during 2019, despite them being used by someone who does not have sweaty hands, who has them hanging from the strap rather than held in the hand for 95% of the time, who lives in Northern England at a latitude equivalent to Copenhagen or Moscow, who does not use DEET except in extremis, who never uses suncream on his hands and who does not live in the jungle.

And my much more expensive camera gear experiences no reaction, despite being touched much more than my binoculars.

 

[dorubird]

Swarovski has made binoculars that are truly environmentally friendly and biodegradable...but unfortunately directly in the customers hands with a certain PH. With such an expensive instrument the expectations are in direct proportion with the price and we are right to ask why it takes so long. If it were a cheap pair of binoculars, I wouldn't even give importance to this design issue. But precisely because we are talking about high-performance binoculars with very high prices, we are entitled to demand maximum quality from the factory!
It's like a beautiful and performant Lamborghini that has from factory a sticky steering wheel only for unlucky certain PH users!