And I suppose you have got diagrams of both optical trains, and details of specific glass types/properties, to back up that statement?
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Product Review: The Sky Rover Banner Cloud 8 x 42 Binocular (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dipperdapper
- Start date
Yarkho
Optics afficionado
Again, I understand if some folks need to play this "plausible deniability" game.
The rest of us can compare specs down to the last significant digit, only to find FOV, eye relief, objective size, transmission, and even length the same. Pure coincidence, surely.
Yarkho
Optics afficionado
Just found out that the APM version has some sort of schematic that looks quite similar to the Xrays of NL Pure 8x42:
www.apm-telescopes.net
www.allbinos.com
APM Ultra ED APO 8x42 Ultra-Weitwinkel Fernglas
Das APO Fernglas 8x42 ist ein hochwertiges optisches Instrument, das sich besonders durch seine erstklassige Bildqualität und Robustheit auszeichnet. Es gehören zur Kategorie der sogenannten apochromatischen (APO) Ferngläser, die spezielle Linsen verwenden, um chromatische Aberrationen zu...
www.apm-telescopes.net
Optical construction of Swarovski NL Pure binoculars
The newest Swarovski Optik binoculars series, called NL Pure, consists of three models that feature very wide fields of view, corrected perfectly up to the edge. What optical system hides behind such an excellent image quality? It was a complete mystery but our X-ray photos can reveal a bit more...
dries1
Member
970 grams, that is more weight than many would care for in a 8X42, (for the weight conscious folks of course).Just found out that the APM version has some sort of schematic that looks quite similar to the Xrays of NL Pure 8x42:
APM Ultra ED APO 8x42 Ultra-Weitwinkel Fernglas
Das APO Fernglas 8x42 ist ein hochwertiges optisches Instrument, das sich besonders durch seine erstklassige Bildqualität und Robustheit auszeichnet. Es gehören zur Kategorie der sogenannten apochromatischen (APO) Ferngläser, die spezielle Linsen verwenden, um chromatische Aberrationen zu...
Optical construction of Swarovski NL Pure binoculars
The newest Swarovski Optik binoculars series, called NL Pure, consists of three models that feature very wide fields of view, corrected perfectly up to the edge. What optical system hides behind such an excellent image quality? It was a complete mystery but our X-ray photos can reveal a bit more...
tenex
reality-based
The obvious fallacy in this argument(?) is the supposition that no one else would ever have figured it out if they hadn't learned it from the Chinese. The fact is that they just happened to get it first, which is often also true of other inventions, and why we have patents. So in a world full of nearly indistinguishable binoculars, the real question here is whether Sky Rover infringed on Swarovski patents. I'm not aware that such a complaint has been lodged.
Maybe, maybe not. In the wide angle 7x35 porro era there were quite a few Japanese (the PRC of that day) manufacturers offering that type of binocular with identical fields of view, the same objective size (obviously), and very similar dimensions. But without looking at the optical train it's impossible to tell whether the actual optical design is the same.
In all fairness, if it can be proved that the SRBC is a copy of the NL optical design, then it should certainly be known as such (and Swaro entitled to seek any penalties that can be obtained under EU legislation). I would like that to be proven by inspecting the actual innards of the binoculars themselves though, rather than schematics. Published schematics have been known to be wrong, no doubt to make life more difficult for copiers. But copying has a long history in the binocular industry (cf. Soviet and Japanese copies of the Zeiss 8x30 Deltrintem and others). If the SRBC is indeed a copy, it won't be the first.
Ignatius
Texpat
Just found out that the APM version has some sort of schematic that looks quite similar to the Xrays of NL Pure 8x42:
APM Ultra ED APO 8x42 Ultra-Weitwinkel Fernglas
Das APO Fernglas 8x42 ist ein hochwertiges optisches Instrument, das sich besonders durch seine erstklassige Bildqualität und Robustheit auszeichnet. Es gehören zur Kategorie der sogenannten apochromatischen (APO) Ferngläser, die spezielle Linsen verwenden, um chromatische Aberrationen zu...
Optical construction of Swarovski NL Pure binoculars
The newest Swarovski Optik binoculars series, called NL Pure, consists of three models that feature very wide fields of view, corrected perfectly up to the edge. What optical system hides behind such an excellent image quality? It was a complete mystery but our X-ray photos can reveal a bit more...
Oooh ... those APMs contain 'Prism Coated Silver'. Preciousss.
tenex
reality-based
Odd, I thought practically everything used dielectric mirrors now. Which is also the technology for phase coating, isn't it.
Binocollector
Well-known member
Certainly just a mistake on the website. I doubt they have silver coated prisms.
8x42/10x42/10x50/12x50 APO Binoculars
SKY ROVER Banner Cloud series 8x42/10x42APO adopt Double ED glasses, Apochromatic structure. Coated with FBMC+phase coating+dielectric coating. Magnesium alloy body. Average transmittance of up to 90% and a peak transmittance of up to 92%. Ultra-flat field wide-angle design. Provide an apparent...
skyroveroptics.com
• I copy what I wrote in post #78 above, now italicizing two phrases: In earlier threads in BF on the NL patents for its optical design are implied to be unnecessary because it is an enhancement of the EL Swarovision system. Patents for its mechanical design, needed to narrow the barrels, are shown by John A Roberts in the thread linked here, at post #2, and I find, at post #21, that delving for clarification there is only possible in German text but I hope I am wrong on that. I assume Swaro. can effect patents, and did effect these, in China.
The foll. is what I gathered in a personal involvement a few years ago with a patent (not in optics) and just now from the internet. Please remark if you know any of this is incorrect or misleading.
• If a patent is filed in some country it is effective only there. Either (I forget) there is no central body to do this in all countries, or if there is (WIPO of UN?) it is very costly. An individual inventor will typically file in a few countries, those that are riskiest, or where there will be max. publicity, the number depending on his/her means. But I'd expect a co. like Swaro. will file their patents in at least all the obvious countries around the world, using whatever most effective method/s.
• China is a signatory to the Patent Cooperation Treaty. WIPO has an office there.
• Holger Merlitz has remarked, somewhere, I think it is in BF, that, on advice obtained directly from him (when he was there?) a co. in China (the manufrs. of SR?) refined the suppression of stray light (against glare /flare /other ill-effects?) in their binoculars to a standard higher than the best of the West.
• It is possible that, on the contrary, by now, resulting from their own research, or the above, Chinese co/s. have their own patents, which may or may not be applicable to the SRBC.
The foll. is what I gathered in a personal involvement a few years ago with a patent (not in optics) and just now from the internet. Please remark if you know any of this is incorrect or misleading.
• If a patent is filed in some country it is effective only there. Either (I forget) there is no central body to do this in all countries, or if there is (WIPO of UN?) it is very costly. An individual inventor will typically file in a few countries, those that are riskiest, or where there will be max. publicity, the number depending on his/her means. But I'd expect a co. like Swaro. will file their patents in at least all the obvious countries around the world, using whatever most effective method/s.
• China is a signatory to the Patent Cooperation Treaty. WIPO has an office there.
• Holger Merlitz has remarked, somewhere, I think it is in BF, that, on advice obtained directly from him (when he was there?) a co. in China (the manufrs. of SR?) refined the suppression of stray light (against glare /flare /other ill-effects?) in their binoculars to a standard higher than the best of the West.
• It is possible that, on the contrary, by now, resulting from their own research, or the above, Chinese co/s. have their own patents, which may or may not be applicable to the SRBC.
I'm glad I never was one!
Isthatascratch?
Well-known member
I haven’t read all these threads … as I am scared. Can anyone tell me what the warranty terms are, and are they transferable? Are they 1 year or longer. Also, it looks like they would need to send to China or is there regional service centres?
Just wanted some advice before looking at them and their site isn’t totally clear.
Cheers ..Chas
Just wanted some advice before looking at them and their site isn’t totally clear.
Cheers ..Chas
If Albie's renewed delight ;-) in this thread is at my post I would explain that I put it up to set down some info I expected might be useful, and, also, hoping exactly that it might help "these SRBC threads" to "calm down to a point that we are all getting along". This binocular is jinxed.
In fact, after posting I deleted my last sentence in a couple of minutes, wary of Right, Left, and Center. It was: I cannot comment on "industrial [word omitted, now, in this current post] and reverse engineering." Within the quote marks is the entirety of a post now deleted, I forget by whom. By Center I mean our alert Moderator/s. I feared it/post/self might be thrown out of the forum.
In this present post I worried about the word "jinx". To me it sounded like it was from the language of a country involved here (in which case I replace). Looked up its etymology, and am pleased to inform BirdForum that the origin is Latin for a bird of omen. It's the Wryneck, and its sci. genus name is Jynx. V. rare migrant in this part of the world. Never seen it. Will I first spot it through my...oops!
In fact, after posting I deleted my last sentence in a couple of minutes, wary of Right, Left, and Center. It was: I cannot comment on "industrial [word omitted, now, in this current post] and reverse engineering." Within the quote marks is the entirety of a post now deleted, I forget by whom. By Center I mean our alert Moderator/s. I feared it/post/self might be thrown out of the forum.
In this present post I worried about the word "jinx". To me it sounded like it was from the language of a country involved here (in which case I replace). Looked up its etymology, and am pleased to inform BirdForum that the origin is Latin for a bird of omen. It's the Wryneck, and its sci. genus name is Jynx. V. rare migrant in this part of the world. Never seen it. Will I first spot it through my...oops!
Sancho, thank you, not taking your kind offer above, as a few 1000 km too far, but am taking your guidance from your review? /reports (inter alia) on this bino. Very tempting specs and reported qualities for so much less than the Swaro. NL in price. If I get one though it won't be right now as I wait to see responses from other manufrs; for me the APM version is out as I very much dislike its looks. OTOH cannot wait too long as my warranty period nears its end and possible vision problems loom.
dries1
Member
I would order the APM version, that way you can get after sales service without the stress/cost of shipment back to asia. I am sure APM can answer any questions you may have.
