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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steve C" data-source="post: 1280310" data-attributes="member: 56622">Kevin,OK, I will try to get to all of your points.  First I do have both the 6x and 8x Yosemite.  I did put them up against the Promaster (there, I got it right this time) ELX ED.  The Yosemities are good, but they are not in the Promaster class.  Especially if you take them all the way out to Jupiter and its moons. Then there is no comparison.  The 6.5 Fury I might add is better at Jupiter distance than the 6x Yosemite.  The Yosemites do not quite resolve Jupiter into a distinct blue ball, the Fury, just barely.  The moons are also easier to see with the Fury, compared to the 6x Yosemite. Whether optics or +.5x I don't know.The Fury and either Yosemite is not quite as sharp as the 7x36 Eaglet.  The Eaglet will turn Jupiter into a distinct blue ball, but the edges of the planet are noticeably sharper with the ELX.  The Swift is about halfway between the Fury/Yosemite and the ELX.  The Swift is not as sharp in any viewing situation as the ELX, while it can generally be said to be sharper in the same situation than the Fury/Yosemite.  Where some will really prefer the Fury/Yosemite is the noticeably wider FOV.  If you are a FOV fan, the Fury may well be your choice over the Swift.The 8x ELX is good enough at distance resolution, I am seriously considering selling my 10x Viper as well as the 8x42 Monarch,  I am really considering the ELX and something like the Minox 13x56 and a tripod.  The Yosemites stay.  The Swift definitely stays, just for its compact size.  I sold the Fury to my brother, so I still can have access to them.Edit:I would really like the chance to do a head to head with the ELX and a Razor and a Meostar, but untill I do, I defer to Frank D's judgement.  He's had his mitts on more different glass than I.  If he comes out in the open and tells us he's selling EL and FL and buying ELX, that says something.  I guess the question is do we add a do we need a premium class for the "wanting to be cool"  birder, and put the Promaster there?  I am actually quite curious about just what makes that Promaster tick.  Is it some sort of design tweak or is it an vastly more economical manufacturing process?  Or is Promaster using it as a lost leader to position itself for a planned $8-900 glass that will take a serious shot at the alpha's?Second edit:The Swift Eaglet Series is positioned just about with the Vortex Viper class.  Hard to see a real practical difference, except Vortex doesn't have a good Viper class compact.  They didn't have the Fury out when I bought the Swift.  Maybe that's where a not quite premium, but darned close for less than $500 category should be added.</blockquote>

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