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Question on Arnaldo de Winkelreid Bertoni (1878-1973) (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Arnaldo de Winkelreid Bertoni (1878-1973) was honered in Euscarthmus gularis bertonii p. 162 (in the document 56/90) according the key a synonym for Poecilotriccus plumbeiceps.

Arnaldo de Winkelried Bertoni. Primer zoólogo paraguayo seems to be a good source of his life. There is written:

Arnaldo de Winkelried Bertoni nació en un pequeño pueblito -casi una aldea- de Lottiga, en el valle alpino del Blenio, en la Suiza italiana, el 28
de diciembre de 1878. Era hijo del afamado naturalista Moisés Santiago Bertoni (1857-1929) y de su esposa Eugenia Rossetti (1856-1929), miembros ambos de familias de antiguo arraigo local. Fue el segundo hijo de la que sería una familia numerosa.

So he was born at 28. December 1878 in Lottiga (must be somwhere near Blenio)

Further more is there written:

Falleció en Asunción en agosto de 1973.

Means he died in August 1973 in Asunción (Paraguay).

Does anyone know the exact date of his death?
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Martin, in my MS this (originally Swiss) guy is Arnold de Winkelried Bertoni (1878–1973), a k a "Arnoldo …" or "Arnaldo de Winkelried Bertoni" (in Paraguay and South America) ... thus not "Winkelreid" (as in today's Key, nor like in the heading of this thread).

Either way; I have no idea of the exact date of his death?

/B
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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Today's updated HBW (still) Alive Key:
bertonii
Arnaldo de Winkelried Bertoni (1878-1973) Swiss immigrant to Paraguay, ornithologist (his father, Dr Moisés Santiago Bertoni, funded a Swiss colony in that country) (syn. Poecilotriccus plumbeiceps).
Agreement and concordance (at least on the de Winkelried part).

Serenity rules.

Björn

PS. The only additional piece/s that might/could be added (if of interest), is his original given name (Arnold), a k a Arnoldo, and the ditto/s of his Father; "Moisés Santiago" (Originally; Mosè Giacomo) Bertoni (1857–1929).

;)
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Taphrospilus

Well-known member
It could be that his grave is to find here if I read:

El sitio se compone de la casa- museo de Bertoni, el Auditorio Winkelried Bertoni, el cementerio, el sendero Arroyo Bertoni, el sendero Kuri`y, la playa y el lugar en donde conviven 12 familias mbya guaraní.
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
As A. d W. Bertoni is commemorated in the Common/Vernacular name Bertoni's Antbird Drymophila rubricollis BERTONI 1901 (here), and as such, in the Birding community, considered "his" (a k a bertonimyrfågel, in Swedish, thereby my interest), allegedly/apparently also in the invalid scientific name "Euscarthmus gularis bertonii" STOLZMANN 1926 (link to OD in post #1, p.162/56), the latter with a clear reference to p.55 of A. de Winkelried Bertoni's "Fauna Paraguaya ...; 1911, p. 55" [the latter one is a synonym of Poecilotriccus plumbeiceps (Lafresnaye, 1846)]

As "our guy"; Arno/ald/o de/da Winkelried Bertoni clearly was the Son of Mosè Giacomo Bertoni (later far more well-known as Moisés Santiago Bertoni), an italian speaking (not German speaking) Swiss immigrant/naturalist (from the Italian part of Switzerland, not from the 'German' part of ditto), I might have to reconsider my (somewhat presumptuous, and far too hasty) claim of the formers true original name!

Thus: was his name truly, originally; "Arnold de ...", or "Arnoldo de ...", alt. Arnoldo da ..." or "Arnaldo de/da ..."?] To me those spellings look German versus Italian resp. (alt. vice versa) Spanish (South American) ... I've seen all versions used, in various text, in various languages !?!

Martin, or anyone else, have you seen a Birth record (from Lottigna, canton Ticino, Switzerland) ... ?

If not; could it possibly be found here, here or here (all in Italian)?

And a purely linguistic question: Which version; "de ..." or "da ..." is the most likely to have been truly Italian? The same question goes for Arnoldo versus Arnaldo ... ?

Anyone who knows Italian?

Grateful for any/every assistance on all those various questions!

Cheers

Björn

PS. Also see here, re. his Father.
 

janvanderbrugge

Well-known member
È vero, Lorenzo, ma non si può dire questo se si tratta di nomi di famiglia . . . Tali nomi e quelli di geografia molte veci non sono congruenti con la grammatica! Björn, io suppongo que anche tu podrai comprendere queste frasi!
Ciao, buona salute, stay well in these barbarous hostage days. Jan van der Brugge
 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
My personal theory on his name is that he got it in honor of the Swiss legendary hero Arnold von Winkelried. For me Winkelried is not a real first/second name. The de Winkelried would be the spanish version of von Winkelried. And it might be worth to ask in the Museo storico della Valle di Blenio, Lottigna. But based on above comment from Laurent and here I would go for Arnoldo da Winkelried. His father seemed to love heros Guglielmo Tell, Werner Stauffacher, Walter Fürst.

Anyway here we can find:
Arnaldo de Winkelried Bertoni [de nombre original Arnoldo da Winkelried] (1878-1973), suizo de nacimiento, llegó al Paraguay siendo muy joven (en 1887), junto a su padre, el naturalista Dr. Moisés Santiago [= Mosè Giacomo] Bertoni (1857-1929) y el resto de su familia. Con el tiempo Winkelried adoptaría al Paraguay como su patria.
 
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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
"de" is not an Italian word at all. ("da" ("from") and "di" ("of") are.)
But ... we do have some Italian guys, like the fairly well-known ornithologist Filippo De Filippi, and (even if less-known) compatriots like; (marchese) Antonio De Gregorio (here), or Domenico de Guidobaldi de’ Baroni di S. Egidio (here) ... ?

Also Rodolphe Meyer de Schauensee was of Swiss origin.

What a mess! Arnoldo versus (the Paraguayan) Arnaldo, de/da/di ...
:scribe:

/B
 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
But ... we do have some Italian guys, like the fairly well-known ornithologist Filippo De Filippi
/B

Interesting he his named here at least once Filippo di Filippi like his nephew DR. FILIPPO DI FILIPPI (1869–1938).

Maybe there was some migration from France to Italy generations before? If we look at Charles Lucien Jules Laurent Bonaparte he went for France. There have been exchange between both countries.
 
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Taphrospilus

Well-known member

Also Rodolphe Meyer de Schauensee was of Swiss origin.


As per key:

meyerdeschauenseei
Rodolphe Meyer de Schauensee (1901-1984) Swiss/US ornithologist, collector (subsp. Rallus limicola, Tangara).

But in his obituary here

Rodolphe was born in Rome on 4 Januar 1901, one of two sons of Frederick Meyer de Schauensee and his wife, the former Matilda Toland. Rodolphe's father was a Swiss Baron, and the family owned a chateau near Lucerne, "Schloss Schauensee," where Rodolphe spent several summers.

I would rather say of italian origin if born in Rome. Of course with ancestors in Switzerland.
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Let's return to the name of Mr Bertoni (Jr.), and "his" birds ...

In his own book, his major contribution to Ornithology Aves nuevas del Paraguay ... (here, which also incl. the OD of "his" Antbird, on p.140) his name is given as (by/por) "A. de Winkelried Bertoni (with [A.]rnaldo, scribbled in pencil, by an unknown writer? Most likely by one of the Smithsonian Library Staff, or possibly by an Original owner, if such an owner existed, prior to it being incorporated in the Library holdings, of course*) versus, for example; here: "Arnold de ..." (in English), alt. "BERTONI, DR. ARNOLDO DE WINKELRIED" (here, on p.xiii, also in English/US English), or (even) the opposite around, as; "A. Bertoni de Winkelried" (in Italian, here) ... !?

Also note that (the in most cases very accurate) Author Fernando Costa Straube writes/wrote Bertoni's name as "Arnoldo de Winkelried Bertoni" (in Ruínas e urubus: História da Ornithologia no Paraná, 2017) ... !?

This far I tend to believe that his original name (as a Child, in his early Childhood) was Arnoldo da Winkelried Bertoni", [in the Italian way, as he was born in the Italian (and Italian-speaking) parts of Switzerland], later, in South America (and even more so in Paraguay), better known as Arnaldo de Winkelried Bertoni" (in the Spanish way).

Either way, a Birth record would certainly be nice to see ... simply to be on the safe side.

Anyone who have seen such a record?

Björn

_________________________________________________________
*This particular volume (in BHL) seems to have been bound by the Smithsonian Libraries, as
it has the Institution's own front- and end-sheets (alt. ditto -papers). Also note the scribbled
writings on the (very first) Title page (Dust-cover): "United States National Museum, Washington",
and it doesn't include any personal Ex Libris (at least not from what I can find, after a quick scroll
through it), all indications that there wasn't any earlier Private ownership of this certain volume.

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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Can anyone (fluent in Spanish) please explain; if young Bertoni, in his Aves nuevas del Paraguay ... from 1901 (first link in #15) believed that he described "100 especies nuevas"/100 new species, for Science/in Ornithology, or if it ("only") was 100 new ones, for Paraguay?

Note that he listed, and described, 115 birds (in detail) + a list of more than 500 birds (in total), for Paraguay (starting on p.186).

As far as I can tell (from the little I understand of Spanish) it does look like he actually claimed it was a 100(!) all new, all earlier/thitherto unknown birds/taxa he'd found! Is this the correct interpretation?

Grateful for all the help I can get on this one.

Björn
 

James Jobling

Well-known member
Bertoni 1901 certainly believed that his newly described species were new to science and to Paraguay (see pp. 209-213). However, since then most have been found to be synonyms of existing species.
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Bertoni 1901 certainly believed that his newly described species were new to science and to Paraguay (see pp. 209-213). However, since then most have been found to be synonyms of existing species.
Thanks, James, I'll take your word for it!

:t:

/B
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Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Can anyone (fluent in Spanish) please explain; if young Bertoni, in his Aves nuevas del Paraguay ... from 1901 (first link in #15) believed that he described "100 especies nuevas"/100 new species, for Science/in Ornithology, or if it ("only") was 100 new ones, for Paraguay?

Note that he listed, and described, 115 birds (in detail) + a list of more than 500 birds (in total), for Paraguay (starting on p.186).

As far as I can tell (from the little I understand of Spanish) it does look like he actually claimed it was a 100(!) all new, all earlier/thitherto unknown birds/taxa he'd found! Is this the correct interpretation?

Grateful for all the help I can get on this one.

Björn

I assume you meant this part on p.5:
Pues bien, en este obra describiré 100 especies nuevas para este pais, la mayor parte de las cuales serán completamente nueva para la cienca.

means somethinng like ...100 new specieses for this country, from which the majority of them are completly new to science.
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Can anyone (fluent in Spanish) please explain; if young Bertoni, in his Aves nuevas del Paraguay ... from 1901 (first link in #15) believed that he described "100 especies nuevas"/100 new species, for Science/in Ornithology, or if it ("only") was 100 new ones, for Paraguay?
...
Bertoni 1901 certainly believed that his newly described species were new to science and to Paraguay (see pp. 209-213). However, since then most have been found to be synonyms of existing species.

I assume you meant this part on p.5:
Pues bien, en este obra describiré 100 especies nuevas para este pais, la mayor parte de las cuales serán completamente nueva para la cienca.
means somethinng like ...100 new specieses for this country, from which the majority of them are completly new to science.
Sorry guys, still a bit stuck on this one, not on the dedicatee himself (we've got the proper guy, all right), but on his writings (i.e. the book above, of 1901), as of now (without understanding Spanish) I'm having a hard time to understand what he actually told us (alt. believed, at that point) thereby, just to get the details right ...

In the PROLOGO (Intro) of the book Aves Nuevas del Paraguay, "El Autor" (i.e. "A. de Winkelried Bertoni") himself, wrote (on page 5, second part from the end):
"Pues bien, en esta obra describré 100 especies nuevas para este pais, la mayor parte de las cuales serán completamente nuevas para la ciencia. Y aún reservo varias para una segunda publicación, por no tenerlas descritas todavía y faltar actualmente en la parte de mi colección que traje á la capital. ..." ... and onwards.

Doesn't this tell us (like Martin suggested) that he claimed that it was a 100 new for Paraguay, of which most, the major part/majority (not all, not every single one of those hundred) was new to Science?

I tried counting them, page by page, but that's far easier said than done!

There are in about 94 birds marked with Bertoni as Author, not all (but many) with. "sp. n." or "gen. nov" (alt. gen. n."), plus nine with a question mark, and two "sub-esp. n.", but note that he wasn't all that consistent in how he wrote it in the separate entries versus the summary list [No.1–No.512 (+98B), on pp.186–205, and/alt. in the INDICE (List of Content), on p.206–213]. Also note that some of the taxa, with Bertoni as Author, appears to have been described, by him, even earlier (in other publications).

However, before we go any further (simply to save anyone some unwarranted work), can someone please explain (or simply translate) what Bertoni himself told us in that certain part/quote above, from/in/at the very start of this book?

The most important part of the text seems to be the one marked in blue.

Björn
 
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