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Racist bird names (1 Viewer)

Melanie

Well-known member
Germany
It is interesting to see how long and often racist names might be in use. The name Hottentot teal is probably better known than the non-racist name Blue-billed teal. Or take the Hottentot Buttonquail whose alternative name Fynbos buttonquail is much lesser used in particular in older bird literature. Maybe Birds of the World should change those vernacular names.
 
North American Oldsquaw was changed a while back, and McCown's Longspur changed to Thick-billed Longspur recently too.
 
At least in the German word Mohrenweber (Ploceus nigerrimus) or old name Mohrenkopfpapagei (Poicephalus senegalus) there is some kind of racism.
 
Sorry, Melanie, I simply don't get it ...

😳

What is the Etymology angle, or concern, of/in this thread ...?

Why posting a suggestion, of what the Birds of the World, maybe should change ... in the Bird Name Etymology sub-forum? What are we to do about the BoW content? Or what is it; that you would like us to do, alt. maybe ought to know?

Or maybe I'm just stupid ... what have I missed?

Björn

PS. If 'only' a topic of racist versus non-racist Bird names (even if an ever so important, alt./and interesting issue) this has been dealt with in several (many, many) discussions, both debated and argued, at times in heat, also in length, in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature forum itself. Let's not repeat it all again, not here in this sub-forum, as well. I think most, or at least much, of it already has been said in that particular Forum (search it, and you'll see) ...

If it was just a way of trying to catch the attention of the Editor's of BoW I would equally think that the ditto Forum certainly would have been a more suitable place for such a suggestion, as those guys seems to be far more frequent there, than here (among us Etymology nerds). 😉

Stay safe!

/B
 
Sorry, Melanie, I simply don't get it ...
Sorry, I just wanted to share my thoughts on political connotated names which are still in use like Hottentot teal or Hottentot buttonquail. IOC is using Fynbos Buttonquail or Blue-billed Teal as English names. Why is BoW is not adapting these names?
 
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Sorry, I just wanted to share my thoughts on political connotated names which are still in use like Hottentot teal or Hottentot buttonquail. IOC is using Fynbos Buttonquail or Blue-billed Teal as English names. Why is BoW is not adapting these names?
And it's certainly worth doing Melanie, don't even think I disagree, but it would have been more appropriate, and certainly more rewarding, to point it out in the Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature forum itself, in threads; like this one, or similar ones; "closer to home".

Good luck in changing it/them ... in the BoW as well. (y)

/B

PS. Maybe, hopefully they also end up here.
 
Sorry, I just wanted to share my thoughts on political connotated names which are still in use like Hottentot teal or Hottentot buttonquail. IOC is using Fynbos Buttonquail or Blue-billed Teal as English names. Why is BoW is not adapting these names?

eBird / Cornell have just done a massive database / system upgrade of some sort, and haven't made any taxonomic changes for over a year - in preparation for and during this update. At some point here the backlog of updates is coming to eBird - perhaps before their 2021 annual taxonomy update, or perhaps 2 years will be updated together this summer when they do the 2021 update.

I could readily imagine that BotW isn't being updated, for the same reasons as eBird... ie, a technical limitation in reflecting changes.
 
eBird / Cornell have just done a massive database / system upgrade of some sort, and haven't made any taxonomic changes for over a year - in preparation for and during this update. At some point here the backlog of updates is coming to eBird - perhaps before their 2021 annual taxonomy update, or perhaps 2 years will be updated together this summer when they do the 2021 update.

I could readily imagine that BotW isn't being updated, for the same reasons as eBird... ie, a technical limitation in reflecting changes.
this is correct. all projects at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology - Birds of the World, eBird, Merlin, All About Birds, etc. - follow the eBird/Clements taxonomy. typically the Clements taxonomy and nomenclature are updated annually. in other words, there's no updating of BOW or any other project on the fly; all changes happen in major jumps. typically the revisions are annual, but due to database management issues we had to postpone the 2020 release; we'll fall back into a regular schedule in 2021. rest assured that we are on top of the issues with the names of the teal and the buttonquail.
 
I'm not against changing some common names - such as Oldsquaw - that are actively offensive to people today. But changing names that are really only historically offensive, or changing honorific bird names on the basis that person wasn't perfect (no one is) is ridiculous IMO.

On the subject, McCown actually spoke out against the Confederacy post-war and never owned slaves. Even if he had I still would be against the name change though, as that was acceptable at the time.
 
Keep in mind that only the vernacular name can be changed, but the Latin name never. That means McCown will be still honoured in the name mccownii. BTW did you know that there is a beetle that is named after Adolf Hitler. The poor animal.
 
The beetle named after Hitler is actually endangered because it is endemic to one location and is a popular item for collectors of Hitler memorabilia.
 
I really didn't think this "racist name" bandwagon would spill over to a bird forum. It was disheartening that this post would be the very first one I chose to read after becoming a member yesterday. To take the suggestion of replacing bird names that today may be offensive, seems to lead to changing all bird names to just a number. "Hey, I spotted a 2104 in the nest of a 203 today" Yes, that is a bit ridiculous but how far are we going to go with this "racist name" thing? Can anyone truly define what is offensive? And to whom is it offensive? Take for example that some pro sports teams are being pressured by some First Nation tribes to change their names. Yet in spite of that on going discussion for the last 40 or 50 years the Tribes have no unified consensus on it. My point is that we can make up, or legitimately find, something that is offensive to any one of us anytime we want. The question may be if we are weighing what we perceive as offensive against a legitimate standard.....or are we just being overly sensitive?
 
I really didn't think this "racist name" bandwagon would spill over to a bird forum. It was disheartening that this post would be the very first one I chose to read after becoming a member yesterday. To take the suggestion of replacing bird names that today may be offensive, seems to lead to changing all bird names to just a number. "Hey, I spotted a 2104 in the nest of a 203 today" Yes, that is a bit ridiculous but how far are we going to go with this "racist name" thing? Can anyone truly define what is offensive? And to whom is it offensive? Take for example that some pro sports teams are being pressured by some First Nation tribes to change their names. Yet in spite of that on going discussion for the last 40 or 50 years the Tribes have no unified consensus on it. My point is that we can make up, or legitimately find, something that is offensive to any one of us anytime we want. The question may be if we are weighing what we perceive as offensive against a legitimate standard.....or are we just being overly sensitive?
I think it is a matter of ethics whether we should retain such negatively biased names or not. Most of these names were created at a time when African people were not treated as human beings, and the describers did not care whether they were using them to disparage a complete group of people or, as in the case of Hitler, to honor an enemy of humanity. But in our debate today about global racism, it's important to think about how we want to deal with that legacy. And I think a name change would sometimes be the best thing, although of course that's not possible with scientific names, because of the principle of priority.
 
If you didn't want to read a discussion of potentially racist bird names, why did you click a thread with "racist bird names" in the title?

There are many, many bird names which are perfectly fine, and are not generally agreed to be racist. But if a name is generally agreed to be racist, it should be changed. For example, names should not contain racial slurs. I would hope that "bird names should not contain racial slurs" isn't up for debate.
 
I think that offensive names generally get changed pretty quickly once people realise that they are offensive. I was genuinely unaware of the offensive nature of the word Hottentot and am pleased that it has been replaced by Blue-billed and Fynbos in the two cases. The use of peoples' names is not quite so straightforward as there is good and bad in everyone.
 
I chose to read that post as I like to read all points of view and was taken aback that the same discussion of political correctness was on a birding forum. My point, as I wrote, was not whether a particular name was found to be offensive or not, but rather who would be the ones to decide if was, what standard would be used to make that decision, and who did it offend.
 
I fully understand why you are addressing this, but why bother changing names. If we put everything in perspective we can change names everywhere on the whole planet. Buildings, streets, national parks, monuments. Why?

We Dutch had a very wealthy 16th and 17th century and we did a lot of bad things during wars, trades etc.. but do we need to change names of streets or bridges because one of our sea heroes like De Ruyter or VOC gouvernor Coen were part of massacres in wars or slave trade or oppression in Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia). Of course it was wrong what they did and we need to teach our children about certain age periods and make them aware of the controversy around some people. It is just a simple example. James Cook did wrong things too. Do we need to change Cook's Petrel or the Cook Islands?

And I am sorry it is my people who came up with the Hottentot name back in the 1650s when we colonized South Africa.
 
I chose to read that post as I like to read all points of view and was taken aback that the same discussion of political correctness was on a birding forum. My point, as I wrote, was not whether a particular name was found to be offensive or not, but rather who would be the ones to decide if was, what standard would be used to make that decision, and who did it offend.
We had this message in another thread a few years ago where Swedish ornithologists had to change some bird names which where obviously racist.


An here is what Wikipedia state on the racist use of the term Hottentot

 
Wilmot Wood Brown Jr (Birdkiller Brown as he was known on the Cayman Islands) was born on 19 May 1868 in Charlestown, Mass. The son of Wilmot Wood Brown Snr and Anne L. Brown. He died at 11 am on 10 Jul 1953 at the Hotel Mexico, Chilpancingo, Guerrero, Mexico.

He seems to have had issues remembering his birth year, as on various official forms it was given as 1868, 1869, 1870 and 1871. Given that such "amnesia" is often due to vanity I have chosen to use the earliest date and that suggested by the 1880 census. He lived at various times in Somerville, Mass and El Paso, TX. His birthdate is certainly not in the late 1870s.

By the way having read a bit about Mr Brown, he is honestly one of the most contemptible of all the people that have been honored in ornithology. The fact he is recognized in several names is stomach churning. If there was a process for removing his honorifics through the IUZN I would seriously think about doing so...
If we talk about ethics people like him above will be problematic too. But I think this is not the question for the etymology part of birdforum. Here we should focus to explain existing names (even if one personally do not like the name choosen).

I give another example striving away from birds. What will you tell the owner of the restaurant “Zum Mohrenkopf” in Kiel about this name? He is a black man from Nigeria and one day another black man came into his restaurant to complain about the name. When the owner arrived at his table he said I don't want to talk to the cook but to the boss of this restaurant. The owner said I am the boss but the guest did not believe him and insisted to speak to the boss. So is the black guest a racist because he believed that a black can't be the boss of a restaurant with this name? The Nigerian owner is aware of the meaning Mohr but not willing to change the name of the restaurant.
 
What will you tell the owner of the restaurant....
Well, I have read on this restaurant too. But I think its a difference when black people used such words (e.g. the Rap/Hip Hop Group NWA or Turks who call themselves Kanake, while some Germans used this word as racist slur to offend Turks or other foreign people). If white man create such terms it is unethical because they are always might be used to offend other humans. And it is equal if these racist slurs used for animals, food, places or other things. Sometimes there are misleading terms like the German "Zigeunerhuhn". This is an old term for the Hoatzin. But we are all knowning that Hoatzins are neither galliforms nor had this bird anythng to do with "Zigeuner" (= gypsies) which is a racist slur for Sinti and Roma.
 
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