• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    Register for an account to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Rare and Scarce Birds in Staffordshire (1 Viewer)

The Moore-hen

Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
News for the 3rd Dec

3 Caspian Gull (1w,2w & 3w) - Belvide roost
Bittern - Tittesworth on conservation pool
redhead Smew - Westport at 13.00
4 Ring-necked Parakeet - Wolverhampton at West Park on Island of the smaller section
 

Gronk08

Well-known member
Managed to see the Smew today at Westport, thanks to the chaps who pointed Lesley and me in the right direction, I even managed to grab a shot.

Tim.
 

Attachments

  • smew.jpg
    smew.jpg
    74.9 KB · Views: 27

The Moore-hen

Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
Extra News for the 6th Dec

3 Caspian Gull (1w,2w & 3w) - Belvide roost
2w Caspian Gull - Chasewater roost
Redhead Smew - still Aqualate Mere
 

The Moore-hen

Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
News for the 7th Dec

Dark-bellied Brent Goose - Tittesworth
Adult Iceland & 1w Caspian Gull - Chasewater
2 Caspian Gull (2w & 3w) - Belvide
redhead Smew - Aqualate Mere
 

The Moore-hen

Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
News for the 13th Dec

redhead Smew - Westport Lake still
2 Caspian Gull (1w & 3w) - Belvide roost
2 x 2w Caspian Gull - Chasewater roost
 

The Moore-hen

Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
Late News for 13th Dec

Probable Ring-billed Gull - Chasewater roost

Photos on twitter of RBG x LBBG hybrid certainly looks more RBG than hybrid but photos are obviously in not great light so hard to be sure. It certainly doesn't look like the bird that has frequented Priorslee area in the past.
 

Steve Nuttall

Well-known member
Late News for 13th Dec

Probable Ring-billed Gull - Chasewater roost

Photos on twitter of RBG x LBBG hybrid certainly looks more RBG than hybrid but photos are obviously in not great light so hard to be sure. It certainly doesn't look like the bird that has frequented Priorslee area in the past.

Hi all,

sorry to disappoint but this is the hybrid Ring-billed/LBB Gull hybrid. This bird dropped into the Belvide roost this evening. Having seen this bird in the past at Belvide and Priorslee it must be the same bird. The mantle shade is darker around Common Gull shade to me. It is also on the larger side, in between Common and LBB Gull in size.
When I viewed the images taken at Chasewater yesterday, you have to take into account that it was a very sunny day that would have bleached out the true shade of this gull.
Below is a photo I took of this bird when it was at Priorslee in 2012.



Cheers Steve
 

Attachments

  • Ring Billed Hybrid.jpg
    Ring Billed Hybrid.jpg
    45.2 KB · Views: 56
Last edited:

The Moore-hen

Association of Satirical Birders & Ornitholigists
Hi all,

sorry to disappoint but this is the hybrid Ring-billed/LBB Gull hybrid. This bird dropped into the Belvide roost this evening. Having seen this bird in the past at Belvide and Priorslee it must be the same bird. The mantle shade is darker around Common Gull shade to me. It is also on the larger side, in between Common and LBB Gull in size.
When I viewed the images taken at Chasewater yesterday, you have to take into account that it was a very sunny day that would have bleached out the true shade of this gull.
Below is a photo I took of this bird when it was at Priorslee in 2012.



Cheers Steve

Cheers Nutt - caught me out that one! The photo (of the Chasewater bird) just looked so much paler and smaller than those I'd seen before of that hybrid but just goes to show how deceptive photos can be, especially in evening light. It looked considerably smaller than LBBG on the twitter photo but obviously not in the field. I'll get my coat...
 
Last edited:

midlands birder

Well-known member
Hi all.

We (that being the NGB's and I) found the hybrid Ring-billed Gull in the roost at Chasewater last night. We came to the same conclusion as Steve, and released the news as a hybrid via twitter (Not a pure bird). We wanted to get others opinions on the bird and posted a few pictures on twitter/ UK Gulls on facebook, and it would seem as if people (RBA) formed the opinion that it was a close enough match (Which we as a group don't believe).

Interesting bird, and once I get a few minutes I will try to upload some photos.

MB

In addition, we still completely agree that the bird was a hybrid, despite a few claims towards a more pure bird by others
 

Steve Nuttall

Well-known member
I would find it amazing that this bird is not the bird I had in the Belvide roost this evening. I can categorically say that today's Belvide bird is the same bird that has been returning for the last 3 winters.
Craig, I would be interested to know your personal description of this bird regarding mantle shade and size. You must have clearly seen something the other day that made you think this bird was a hybrid.

Cheers Steve
 

Zac Hinchcliffe

Time spent wishing is time wasted!
I would find it amazing that this bird is not the bird I had in the Belvide roost this evening. I can categorically say that today's Belvide bird is the same bird that has been returning for the last 3 winters.
Craig, I would be interested to know your personal description of this bird regarding mantle shade and size. You must have clearly seen something the other day that made you think this bird was a hybrid.

Cheers Steve

Categorically is a very strong word Steve. Did you see the wing formula? As far as we can tell, it's different in primary pattern to the Belvide/Priorslee bird. It's primaries match a pure RBG (see attached: top-bottom Priorslee, Chasewater, RBG Nimmo's Pier.)
Some VERY experienced gullers have expressed that they feel that everything aside from the mantle shade is completely spot on. Apparently there is overlap in mantle shade between argenteus and RBG and they can even get as dark as pale canus commons...
Also, though a tertial crescent is rarely so well defined in RBG, it does state in Olsen that they can rarely match canus/bracyrhynchus

Zac
 

Attachments

  • montage.jpg
    montage.jpg
    157.2 KB · Views: 28

Nick Smith

Member of the Staffordshire Bird Club
Categorically is a very strong word Steve. Did you see the wing formula? As far as we can tell, it's different in primary pattern to the Belvide/Priorslee bird. It's primaries match a pure RBG (see attached: top-bottom Priorslee, Chasewater, RBG Nimmo's Pier.)
Some VERY experienced gullers have expressed that they feel that everything aside from the mantle shade is completely spot on. Apparently there is overlap in mantle shade between argenteus and RBG and they can even get as dark as pale canus commons...
Also, though a tertial crescent is rarely so well defined in RBG, it does state in Olsen that they can rarely match canus/bracyrhynchus

Zac

Your first impression in the field was of a hybrid RBG x LBBG. You said the mantle went darker as the sun went down. Now you are listening to very experienced gullers who are just examining a photo. Nothing beats first hand experience in the field. A single photo is just a snap shot. If an extremely experienced guller says categorically then believe me, despite being a baggy fan, he means categorically.
 

midlands birder

Well-known member
Hi Steve.

I think our main worry was that the mantle seemed too dark (On our very limited knowledge). We were unsure as to the variation in RBG mantle shades, the extent of streaking on the head, a slightly larger than expected tertial crescent, and the fact I was wary due to the string of hybrid records over recent years.

In the field it seemed darker than the adjacent Herrings. Prolonged watching as it swam around in the water confirmed this impression (at least to me) but it didn't approach LBBG in colour at any point, but our 'group knowledge' (Sadly of only Waldo, which is very pale) quickly picked it out as darker in mantle shade to that bird, which perhaps is not the most helpful of examples.
Size wise is was perfect, noticeably smaller than both LBBG and Herrings surrounding it. Structure was good and as I would expect, perhaps a little elongated but I have never seen a RBG sitting on the water before.

The primary pattern is spot on for adult RBG (confirmed by multiple gullers) on both the upper and underwings, and the worries about the head streaking were ruled out as 'pure' birds show similar, which really only leaves the mantle shade.

Can you try to obtain photos/video of the bird at Belvide if it roosts again, particularly of the wing formula?

We have now had multiple high profile gullers who have contacted us, and the same answer is being repeated. At least 2 BBRC members believe it is a RBG, multiple 'big names' and the author of a rather topical book.

As for me, I'm undecided as of yet
 
Last edited:

Steve Nuttall

Well-known member
Hi all,

look, I'm not going to get into a slanging match and I will hold my hands up and say that I agree that the open wing shots Zac shows, do show a different pattern between the two birds concerned.
However I'm still totally happy that the bird I saw at Belvide last night is the returning hybrid bird from the last few winters. The mantle shade was too dark and the bird was on the bulky side.
Maybe I thought there was too much of a coincidence and there is after all a Ring-billed knocking about. Just hope it's relocated.

Cheers Steve
 

The Snapper

Well-known member
Hi Steve,

Have you been able to see the colour of the hybrids eye?

Craig's photo of the bird at Chasewater appear to show a yellow eye(through my iPhone)

Cheers

Steve
 

Steve Nuttall

Well-known member
Hi Steve,

Have you been able to see the colour of the hybrids eye?

Craig's photo of the bird at Chasewater appear to show a yellow eye(through my iPhone)

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve,

yes the hybrid does have a pale iris. See below photo of the Priorslee bird taken in 2012 and thanks to Craig for explaining his side of things.

Cheers Steve
 

Attachments

  • Ring Billed Hybrid.jpg
    Ring Billed Hybrid.jpg
    36.5 KB · Views: 32
Last edited:

Zac Hinchcliffe

Time spent wishing is time wasted!
Hi Steve,

Have you been able to see the colour of the hybrids eye?

Craig's photo of the bird at Chasewater appear to show a yellow eye(through my iPhone)

Cheers

Steve

Yellow with red orbital ring.

Zac
 

Attachments

  • 10686802_10152849265925090_6793866289260003330_n.jpg
    10686802_10152849265925090_6793866289260003330_n.jpg
    35.9 KB · Views: 38
  • 1013643_10152849265960090_2019110660862186266_n.jpg
    1013643_10152849265960090_2019110660862186266_n.jpg
    34.9 KB · Views: 37

MrBruce

Active member
Your first impression in the field was of a hybrid RBG x LBBG. You said the mantle went darker as the sun went down. Now you are listening to very experienced gullers who are just examining a photo. Nothing beats first hand experience in the field. A single photo is just a snap shot. If an extremely experienced guller says categorically then believe me, despite being a baggy fan, he means categorically.

Our first impression was "is that a ring-billed gull? haven't there been hybrids about? maybe it looks dark".

Very educational bird what ever it is.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top