Recorder with pre record buffer? (1 Viewer)

[Dollenz]

Hello! Just got a parabolmic and looking into buying a recorder. Can anyone advice on the smallest one with best pre record buffer? I see that Tascam dr-05 come with 2 secs, sounds ok but would prefer just a tad more.. what about the olympus lsp4? Cant find any info.. any advice would be highly appreciated!
Best wishes!
Erik

 

[iveljay]

Did a quick check on the Zoom H4N Pro, Zoom H5 and the Tascam DR-100III all have about 2 seconds and all far larger than you want. As far as I know the LS-P4 doesn't do pre-record. It terms of size you may well have the answer in the DR05.

 

[iveljay]

Just checked an LS-P4 confirmed that it doesn't have pre-rec, strangely its predecessor the LS-P14 did have it, but just the standard 2 seconds.

All manufacturers stress its 'up to' 2 seconds depending on audio format.

 

[Borjam]

Higher end recorders offer a longer pre record buffer, in some cases depending on the sample rate.

For example, my Sound Devices MixPre 3 (1st generation) can do 5 seconds at 44.1 or 48 KHz and 2 seconds at 96 KHz. . The current models (second generation) can do up to 10 seconds, I guess at 44.1 and 48 KHz.

The Zoom F8 models have about 5 seconds of pre roll I think.

That said, do you really need it? 2 seconds is more than enough reaction time if you hear something interesting and you are paying attention.

 

[iveljay]

Another update - my old Sony PCM M-10 will prerecord up to 5 seconds!
Some other Sony recorders such as the D-10 also have this, the trouble being that the M-10 is only available second hand and most Sony recorders are expensive and bigger than the DR05.
My M-10 is quite compact, but still heavier than the DR05.

Most other recorders in my possession, past and present just don't pre-record.

 

[iveljay]

Zoom F8 goes up to 6 seconds, but doesn't really qualify as small and at £800 its a bit rich for a few seconds.

PCM M-10s seem to be going for over £200 second hand considering mine cost £173 new!, though it was a few years ago.

 

[Dollenz]

Thanks so much everyone for fast and informative answers!

 

[Dollenz]

Pcma10..?

Noboby mentioned pcm-a10..? Any obvious reason Im missing? Seem to have 5sec buffer and being handy and very capable soundwise.. any users out there?

 

[iveljay]

Thank you for drawing my attention to this - it clearly has potential.

From my perspective, the bulk of my recording equipment uses XLR connectors, hence the omnipresent Tascam and Zoom equipment for handheld use and things like the MixPre for those in search of multi connectors, higher quality recording + better battery life.

I went on record when the LS-P4 first came out that I didn't like it as it was too small for many uses - difficulty reading the screen in low light - my long sight and hefty fingers, against that I own several, as they do have their uses, mainly small size - reasonable recording quality - long battery life and the fact I can clamp them to anything.

Many of us were firm fans of the Oly LS-11 from way back and have tended to use Olympus for their pocket sized needs and not really looked much further. There are relatively few folks who take audio seriously and we probably get stuck in our own particular ruts. So I admit that it is my fault for not looking and definitely Sony's fault for not making it more obvious, normally its the opposite.

I have just read the manual on-line and it certainly has many uses and knowing Sony quality you should perhaps take it seriously for your needs. The fold up sheet that comes with it is a bit off putting, but the online manual is reasonable.

There is a review that does bring out its highs and lows.

https://mindful-audio.com/blog/sony-pcm-a10-long-term-review

The reviewer was hoping for a replacement for his PCM M-10, as was I when I saw this, regrettably it clearly isn't. So my much loved M10 lives for another day!

Another factor that puts it at a disadvantage with the Oly LS-P4 is that as well as having a long battery life the Oly allows you to swap out its battery for alkaline or another rechargeable in the field, the Sony does not. So its adviseable to bring a power bank pack along too

The quality using an external microphone is apparently OK - which is what you want - excellent.

The A-B or X-Y positioning of its internal mics is of use for music recording but fairly irrelevant to birds.

So it does give you your desired (up to) 5 seconds pre-record and reasonable quality (with an external mic) at a lot less money than anything else I am aware of (it doesn't mean they aren't out there some where).

The internal mics are possibly not good enough if you were planning to skip using a seperate mic for the parabolic and just clamp this at the focus point instead. So its clamp it to the handle or stick it in your pocket and use the normal mic in the parabolic.

So accepting the pros and cons it is clearly a contender and may well be just what you want.

Unfortunately I don't really need one of these - so a review from me is unlikely and not really necessary, but if it has a proper tripod attachment point unlike the silly one on the Olympus that needs the supplied adaptor I may change my mind one day!!!

Well done for spotting it and please let us know what you decide and if you get one, I for one would be interested to hear how you get on with it.

J

 

[Dollenz]

Thanks for your input iveljay! Yes, it is sailing up as a main contender.
Being new to recording I dont really know how this will pan out for me, how and how often I will use it. My idea is to do occasional dedicated recording and listening paired with a possibility to have it ready in the field without parabol and pick up when for instance a ticking sparrow passes by an october morning, hence the need for long pre buffer..
Being a classical musician though I can see the need to get the d100 and have the possibility to use it for that as well, recording concerts etc, although very uncertainhow often that would happen, and for those occasions I suppose the a10 with external mic would work just as well? Will probably go for the a10...

 

[iveljay]

The best thing with audio recording is to read or listen to what works best for other people and then adopt a suck it and see approach, trying out what other folks do and also your own ideas.

You learn a lot more actually doing things. Once you get the hang of your equipment, you will find out what it does well, what it doesn't and your weaknesses and strengths. You also need to adapt to your environment and the foibles of your local wildlife.

You will also understand what you want from your next recording purchase - should you get more involved.

One thing I do know and that is that recording wildlife is potentially a whole lot more fun than recording live stage performances. At least it is to me.

Remember a single external microphone will normally record mono, quite adequate for most bird song. Personally for stage work I prefer stereo especially if I am producing a video that needs a sound track. There are external stereo microphones that can be interfaced to the A10 through its 3.5mm stereo connector, but there are many ways of achieving this.

The Sony PCM D100 is very much the replacement model for my ageing PCM M10 and I like it a lot, however, my needs are different these days. If I had to own just one recorder and use its built in microphones, this would be a very strong contender, regrettably common sense points out that I don't actually need one. It is also relatively expensive compared to other solutions for my uses.

For recording other things - rehearsals are fine, but when you get an audience involved, with backstage crew and everything else that is going on then it definitely becomes a whole different subject and not for this forum.

Best of luck.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Before I started recording, I always thought that a pre-record buffer would be really useful, but to be honest, I can't say that it has ever really saved the day. If you have set up your mic on a potential subject, then why not press record and let the recorder run, waiting for the target to vocalise? - memory is relatively cheap nowadays, so it generally isn't the limiting factor when making recordings any more. To pick up the occasional diurnal migrant (such as the ticking sparrow) I would let the recorder run, but jot down the start time and the time of each recording of interest (or if your recorder allows, electronically marks the file) so that you can easily find the recording and extract them from a large file.

If you are taken completely off guard, then the chances you will have a directional mic (such as the parabola mentioned) pointed in the right direction, recording levels correct, and be able to jump into action, hit record and not create a load of handling noise in a few sec window, seems unlikely.

It also depends on what you are using the recordings for, but I find that recordings that jump straight into the action without a 'lead-in' sound a bit odd. If you want to have a few seconds of lead-in, then a pre-record buffer is obviously not the solution. If you just want the recording for ID purposes then it is not an issue.