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Red Necked Grebe (1 Viewer)

Potatoheaded Bobby

Well-known member
Morning all.
I believe this is a young, maybe juvenile Red necked Grebe ?
Saw a ton of these at Samuel Smith Park on Lake Ontario.
Regards
Detlef
 

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Alexander Stöhr

Well-known member
I agree with Red Necked Grebe, everything is there. I am unsure about ageiing of the first bird. In Europe, 1 cy birds regulary have dark stripes at head and at least some orangey-brownish wash /feathers as remains from juvenile plumage by October. Your bird seems to have an adult looking head and neck with pure grey and white tones here.
Extensive yellow bill is within variation for an adult bird, but adults normally have a little more dark and less yellow in the bill than your bird. Are american birds different to those in Europe in this point? There is an old paper in a german birding journal, about this topic. I will see, if I can find further clues there.
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
The big, heavy, loon-like bill is a difference from the European subspecies of Red-necked Grebe - ours have a smaller, somewhat slenderer bill. Don't know about relative amounts of yellow though. :t:
 

Alexander Stöhr

Well-known member
Thanks Nutcracker! When looking at the first picture, I see a "monster" bill now. Didnt know this and looking forward to check this next time I see a Red Necked Grebe. So helpfull to me!
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
Thanks Nutcracker! When looking at the first picture, I see a "monster" bill now. Didnt know this and looking forward to check this next time I see a Red Necked Grebe. So helpfull to me!
RNG in North America don't have 'downward pressure' from any larger grebe, like European ones do from Great Crested Grebes (and minimal range overlap with Western Grebe). So evolution has given them a free run to get larger.

A bit like with Sri Lankan Leopards - no pressure from larger cats (Lions, Tigers), so they're the largest subspecies of Leopard, being the 'top cat' there.
 

Alexander Stöhr

Well-known member
RNG in North America don't have 'downward pressure' from any larger grebe, like European ones do from Great Crested Grebes (and minimal range overlap with Western Grebe). So evolution has given them a free run to get larger.

A bit like with Sri Lankan Leopards - no pressure from larger cats (Lions, Tigers), so they're the largest subspecies of Leopard, being the 'top cat' there.

Thank you Nutcracker!

Looked at the literature now, and as the first bird lacks a pale, yellowish eye-ring normally present in a 1winter bird, this can be aged as an adult. But I dont know if this works for American birds, too.

1cy Red-necked Grebes showing this eye-ring can be seen here:

https://club300.de/gallery/photo.php?id=56698
https://club300.de/gallery/photo.php?id=69936
http://www.paulnoll.com/Oregon/Birds/Likely/thumbs-Grebe-Red-necked.jpg
https://www.birdguides.com/articles/identification/grebe-photo-id-guide/
 

njlarsen

Well-known member
Opus Editor
Nothing about such an eye ring in birds of the world. For first winter birds, it says something like duller cheek and lack of white crescent behind ear coverts. Such a crescent is seen in image one also indicating it is not a first winter.

Niels
 

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