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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AStevenson" data-source="post: 672440" data-attributes="member: 34537">I'll tread warily into this, based on my experience in the Outer Hebs, of several years surveying birds in young forestry in mainly Southern Scotland, and experience of redpolls in Northern Finland and Varanger Norway in July a few yerars ago.Many folk as has been said already are not that familiar with redpolls in the breeding season. And as I've said before there's a PhD waiting for someone who can work it all out for NW Scotland - some birds I reckon are un ID able currently - local ringers have failed to assign birds in the hand. (and I'm in favour of lumping at the moment if only because I get the same birds reported as different types by different people!)In my experience Greenland birds are BIG redpolls - bulky as well as long looking (wingshape often reminiscent of Lapland Bunting due to very long exposed primaries, although some Mealy show rather long wings too) They are usually obviously brown toned but with pale feather bases often giving strong pale tramlines on the back. Undertail coverts usually quite obviously marked. Also big billed, and the black on the face and bib often appears more extensive/obvious. An apparent male I saw holding territory in Barra this summer had an all black bill in June (enhancing the black face) and the red on the breast was deep and strong (rosefinch toned) extending well on to the flanks! Rump was whitish with a strong pinky red cast. Autumn birds show a whitish rump but less noticeable. Your bird is not likely to be a Greenland.Mealy/Icelandic or Lesser? I don't think I can give a definitive answer based on the features available in the pics. Mealy/Icelandic are usually paler birds with less brown tones but can look browner when worn in mid summer. They normally show decent pale tramlines and have neat rows of flank streaking (2-3). Undertail coverts vary markedly - one I've photographed was almost unmarked and appeared so at distance. In autumn we get some rather fresh brown-toned redpolls with tramlines and pale rumps which often occur when the Icelandic redwings are coming through so these may well be Icelandic as well!! Again when seen beside Lesser they seem a tad bulkier and larger. The pale breeding birds in the Outer Hebs are currently thought to best fit with Icelandic and again the males go quite red often including a cast on the rump. This year I managed to pick up these kinds of birds by calls and song in spring - subtely different from the local apparent lessers (I must get a life!!).Lessers are the brownest usually but by mid-late summer can become more greyish and faded. They are more variable than many texts describe. They can show pale rumps but usually much more limited in extent than the other forms. Some males do go quite red as opposed to the more pinky red more often described. Usually the undertails are pretty obviously marked. and the flank streaking less distinct. Again they can also show tramlines but these are usually not as strong. Bill goes blackish like other races in males in peak breeding season.As there is overlap in features being sure what type it is isn't easy - in Iceland I think it is suspected that they have a mix of forms or that there's some element of hybridisation and I think that may be that kind of scenario maybe the case in NW Scotland too.Based on what I can see in the pics, I would tentatively go with it being rather Lesser-ish: The brown colour on the upperparts does seem quite strong and the view from behind suggests the feather bases aren't whitish.  Buff or greyish on my screen.The bill in the middle pic looks quite dark still so I assume the extent of reddish colouring hasn't been lost yet although it may have faded. The reddish is confined it appears mainly to the breast and upper flanks which is more like lesser. Not sure of the depth of red but, in the second pic it looks a bit more pinkish (may be lighting effect/dodgy monitor) Similarly the rump looks more pink than red, but it does look a little large for a pale rump on a Lesser - hence my tentativeness.If this bird had obviously streaked undertail coverts then I'd reckon it's a lesser (almost definitely maybe!)The pale birds that breed in the Outer Hebs are also migrants arriving in Mar/April and usually gone by late Sep/Oct. Redpolls of any kind are usually pretty scarce out here in mid winter. Cheers,AndrewPS. Also know a Swedish ringer who rings on an island in the Baltic who has handled birds which should fit all types of redpoll - and these bird appeared during big movements of birds from the east - go figure!??</blockquote>

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