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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The_Partridge" data-source="post: 2233343" data-attributes="member: 98001">not from looking at photos. It seems to be quite variable (whether due to real variation or interpretation). Collins states this to be the case, which presumably means real variationPrimary projection is inherently open to interpretation. I've seen people post their estimate of PP for a bird in this forum which differed hugely from what I and others thought was the case. Not even in the same ballparkmy feeling (and apparently Hadoram's, to an extent) is that birders (especially out-of-range birders) are too confident of their (non-vocalising field) IDs of this group of warblers. I'd even say that much of the time you can only really be 'sure' what you have when it's in the hand, and even then I think there can be question marksin live conditions I've seen the same bird called as 5 different species by 5 different birders (from memory; Booted, Sykes, EOW, Blyth's Reed and Paddyfield), and these are guys that have travelled quite a bit and there were some good eyes present (better than mine)I've got a photo on my computer which I might post up at some point. i was told it was a such-and-such warbler based on in-the-hand measurements. I'd be surprised if any or many people on here come up with the same name as the handler, if I were to post the photo up</blockquote>