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Repairing TSN-3? have I been scammed? (1 Viewer)

normjackson

Well-known member
Yep of course hindsight is wonderful and experience often hard won. As well as absence of photos of any glass I guess the original listing noting "regular cleaning" might have raised a flag. That 30x eyepiece is actually very nice if in good condition.

For a loong time now Ebay sellers have complained that it is weighted heavily in favour of the buyer even to the extent now that I suspect fraudulent buyers have become quite an issue. I'm guessing you shouldn't have trouble getting Ebay on to your case but as PYRTLE suggests, any delay reduces your credibility.
 

Petiso

Member
Yep of course hindsight is wonderful and experience often hard won. As well as absence of photos of any glass I guess the original listing noting "regular cleaning" might have raised a flag. That 30x eyepiece is actually very nice if in good condition.

For a loong time now Ebay sellers have complained that it is weighted heavily in favour of the buyer even to the extent now that I suspect fraudulent buyers have become quite an issue. I'm guessing you shouldn't have trouble getting Ebay on to your case but as PYRTLE suggests, any delay reduces your credibility.

I have already openned a dispute on paypal it has been 3 days with no reply from the seller, the first step is always contact them.
An error, it's not ideal, you better open the case from Ebay, not from paypal, these procedures are exclusive.

I'm a seller myself and i know what is like to deal with twitchy and unfair buyers... So i like to think i'm a reasonable buyer too.

I'm willing to accept the issues with the scratched optics when buying old items, here i add a photo of the HARDLY used eyepiece (please zoom in the image, no, that's not dust), when he assured on the description the scope had been "used in a handfull of ocations and been well looked at" Again likely lying, but, it's ok.

The eyepiece (i think that's the cause) renders a slight haze effect, but, that's not the end of the world i was planning to replace the EP eventually, but the dented hood??? (and probably the sloppy repair)...
I try with all my strength not to feel cheated by the description and the photos, but he is not making it easy for me.

If i ever had to sell an item like this i would expressly show (and not deliberately hide) the tare of product (so does most of sellers), not just for honesty, but for avoiding later problems...


By the way, to contribute something to this telescope forum, i also want to clarify that what is said about the fluorite Kowa TSN's is true, they have a remarkable optical quality, even if i had to discover it in such a traumatic way. :)

I love to read how much some users like jring defend this kind of old scopes, they are right, very good performance, and better with an eyepice upgrade.
 

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mayoayo

Well-known member
Looks like it was cleaned with sandpaper.. That eyepiece is trashed.So no "like new" condition here.. Now that I see the pictures of the posting, there is obvious evidence of denting in the hood in the second picture, that alone would have sttoped me from purchasing..But even though, the issue with the inside cleaning marks is serious, and take a lot of value off,and that wasn't mentioned.. The person that cleaned this scope was not very careful, so even if the lens is the original Fluorite lens, it is damaged to an extent. That scope should have been priced at 250 Eu at most.
 
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Petiso

Member
Looks like it was cleaned with sandpaper.. That eyepiece is trashed.So no "like new" condition here.. Now that I see the pictures of the posting, there is obvious evidence of denting in the hood in the second picture, that alone would have sttoped me from purchasing..But even though, the issue with the inside cleaning marks is serious, and take a lot of value off,and that wasn't mentioned.. The person that cleaned this scope was not very careful, so even if the lens is the original Fluorite lens, it is damaged to an extent. That scope should have been priced at 250 Eu at most.

Yeah, only now that i know i can get to see, on that blurred image, taken from profile that the hood was already dented when shipped.
You know... "only a sligh scuff" i just trusted the descripcion and i didn't pay the (so needed) attention
to the signs...

And yes, as i said earlier, the front lens are somehow fine on the outer side but kinda scratched on the inside, SO extrange, especially, more profussedly scratched on the very edge (pay attention to the top-left of the photo), supposedly the less exposed area of the lens, so i don't know how it could make sense (now i add a Photo, that scratching is in the inner side).
 

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jring

Well-known member
Hi,

the EP is unfortunately toast - the marks on the objective are probably negligible from an optical performance point of view.

As for the laser question - never have tried it with a red one... seems not totally impossible to see, just less pronounced.
I didn't own a laser pointer and thus got a green one... but was in no hurry, so 4 weeks delivery from china were no problem.

Joachim
 

slingworks

Well-known member
You'll win your Ebay case and they'll give a refund. If you're set on a TSN3, I happened to see one in mint condition (Remember it looking near perfect) for sale at a shop a week ago. I believe they were asking around $700 US. Had the original Kowa Zoom on it. I'll probably be going up there this coming week if you have any interest. Maybe they'd negotiate?

Your eyepeice is an older 30x...They're ok but not all that great. a modern EP like the Te14wd, TE-9z or the 25xLER TE17HD literally turns your older TSN into a modern scope. Those EP's cost around 200-300 US depending on where you are but are 100% improvement.
 
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jring

Well-known member
Hi,

the difference between an older but already muticoated 30x wide and a current one is the twist-up vs the older rubber eyecup...

If it is still singlecoated, ok then there is quite a bit of improvement to be had with a multicoated one...

Joachim
 

slingworks

Well-known member
Hello JRING,


Surely it's more than just a fold down or twist up eyecup difference on the 30xw? I measured mine and the lens measures 31mm....How wide is the lens on the old ep? In the photos it looks considerably smaller, maybe 25mm?
 
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robson_h

Member
Hi Petiso,
i have seen your scope in ebay. Have added it to my watchlist. I was kind of interested. Then decided to Look for 824 scope instead. Can you test your scope with another eyepiece? Then decide to refund.

Robert
 
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Petiso

Member
Hi Petiso,
i have seen your scope in ebay. Have added it to my watchlist. I was kind of interested. Then decided to Look for 824 scope instead.
Robert

Lucky you 3:), almost scammed (kinda), just realize that you dodged that bullet....

The fact is, there are not many scopes like these nowadays... They are increasingly requested, so they are getting more expensive.

Then decided to Look for 824 scope instead.

Robert

...And... how has it been?, did you get your scope?, 824 is newer more expensive, and i have the impression they are even rarer, i have often seen units with the paint of the body in very bad condition, it seems that's a frequent tare.


Can you test your scope with another eyepiece? Then decide to refund.

Robert

Well, there's an open dispute in paypal, im not willing to invest on a very expensive eyepiece just to check, let's see how things go, if i am finally forced to keep it and settle with the scope, yes i will change the eyepiece (i have no choice) and probably try to get it checked by a professional, a general review...
 
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Petiso

Member
You'll win your Ebay case and they'll give a refund. If you're set on a TSN3, I happened to see one in mint condition (Remember it looking near perfect) for sale at a shop a week ago. I believe they were asking around $700 US. Had the original Kowa Zoom on it. I'll probably be going up there this coming week if you have any interest. Maybe they'd negotiate?

Your eyepeice is an older 30x...They're ok but not all that great. a modern EP like the Te14wd, TE-9z or the 25xLER TE17HD literally turns your older TSN into a modern scope. Those EP's cost around 200-300 US depending on where you are but are 100% improvement.


Wow, thanks for your offer, and thank you for even considering bothering about it, very kind of you.

let's see how this story ends, i'm not 100% sure of the refund.

And 700$ are 600+ Euro (plus shipping), a little bit on the high side for this kind of scopes... and... from the United States... thats the new world.... you know, transatlantic shipping, customs... My poor heart has suffered enough recently with these uncertainties.
I'm going to take it easy with the next steps.
 
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robson_h

Member
Hi Petiso,
i found an 824 in ebay uk. Bad paint Problem. Seller is a pro and tested the scope. Optics should be fine he sad. Bought it with Paypal but not on eBay. Not yet arrived.

Robert
 

slingworks

Well-known member
Those 823/824s are pretty sharp scopes. I recently bought a like new in box TSN 823M from Australia. Had to pay $860 for it and around $60 shipping. Overall I'd say it was worth it. The original 823 had the bad paint issue..I think they all get it. I've seen Fujinons with the same paint issue as well. The 823M has a colored plastic body, no rubberized paint to melt away..

Somewhere, some short while back I read a test report of a variety of modern spotters, including Swarosvki, Zeiss and the Kowa 883. The scope that showed the highest resolution was the 823m, just barely edging out the 883...Of course that's no guarantee of anything, could have been luck of the draw.

I wish I could find the link, will post it if I come back across it.
 

mayoayo

Well-known member
Removing the paint of the old 823 is very easy with a little bit of alcohol (and gets desinfected at the same time.. handy!) once it's done it can be painted or use a stay on case to keep the black body to overheat(it does otherways on direct sun in hot days). The paint is not the only difference with the M models.. The body is not very strong,and although you don't wanna drop any scope, this one is more fragile than most other models I have used and won't survive a lot of trauma. The compact,all metal body of the tsn3, is a tank in comparison.
 
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robson_h

Member
Tomorrow DPD will bring the TSN-824 to me. I don't have an eyepiece from 820 Series to test. It is planned more like a DIY-Project. I have some eyepieces which need an adapter to mount on the scope. I will see how all comes together. The most promising eyepiece i have is Nikon FEP-30W. I plan to buy a 50,8mm Adapter Ring from Baader and srew or glue it to the eyepiece. The second promising is a TSN-PZ. This one needs an adapterring glued into th M53 Mount of TSN-PZ. I will see..

@Petiso you still waiting for the Paypal refund? Baader does have adapter rings for your 41,5mm scope. They also have this nice zoom Okular to fit your Kowa.

For TSN-PZ -> 820 Kowa there is this Adapter available. No need to build this one.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Baader-Hype...784362?hash=item5b5b5c116a:g:9LkAAOSwf5ddTPmi
 
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slingworks

Well-known member
Robson, that sounds like an interesting project. I wonder how the nikon 30x ep's perform? I've not had the luck to try out any fixed nikon eyepieces...

I bought a kowa adapter for my 823, and I use the 660 series eyepieces I already have. Bought mine for $80 from optics planet. Expensive, but was great. You might want to try one out later on.

Post a photo or 2 here with your results when you're finished.
 

mayoayo

Well-known member
. The most promising eyepiece i have is Nikon FEP-30W. I plan to buy a 50,8mm Adapter Ring from Baader and srew or glue it to the eye:king:piece. The second promising is a TSN-PZ.....


HI robson.. Congrats on your tsn824..I do have an old 823 and use the new baader hyperion, that fits directly on the scope and one particular 12mm astro with a machined adapter (had a few made, and after years recovered one that I sold, muafter it was all over the world , passing through a few birdforum members) My adapted eyepiece is a super nice but not very expensive BST explorer and it is attached to the adapter with a semipermanent system.. The point i wanna make is that I opted for not gluing the adapter, so I can use the eyepiece and adapter in the future if I need to fit another need..I think for a very expensive EDG eyepiece is a bit too compromising to glue an adapter and pretty much take its value, even if works great for your scope.. Would not be better to sell it and look for an eyepiece that fits or to buy something like my BST explorer and save some. Of the extra money you would get?
Just another option..
 

robson_h

Member
Hi Mayoayo,

i bought the Nikon FEP used on Ebay. Someone here in the forum did adapt an Nikon FEP to a Pentax scope.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3943567

Here is a picture of the Baader Adapter i plan to adapt.

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/...sch---geeignet-für-solar-spectrum-filter.html

The outer Diameter of the adapter is 64mm. This will fit nice on the Nikon. The original Nikon Bajonett is screwed no problem to remove that. I do have a small mill and can adjust the thikness of the ring to match infinite focus. The srews of the Nikon Bajonett will not fit into the Baader ring. They are asymetric in a way. I can try to drill new matching holes in the ring and srew it to the eyepiece. But you are right i don't want to destroy it.
 

mayoayo

Well-known member
You know what u are doing.. This mod seems reversible so no harm done.. I just pictured supergluing some threads on a very nice eyepiece and wanted to shine a beam on the concept of waiting for a better idea,but you already figured this very well indeed.. I love that baader universal 2 inch adapter.. I will definitely get one for some future experiments
 

robson_h

Member
Baader has two 2'' Adapters. The other one is the one you already have at you Hyperion. It's cheaper but not made like a flange.
 

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