RSPB proposes cuts? (2 Viewers)

[Farnboro John]

I always assumed that the shops and cafes were intended to generate extra income that could be used for conservation. If they are actually losing money, then by all means close them down asap!

This is purely my opinion but I believe one reason the cafes might be losing money is the policy of serving only fairtrade stuff instead of familiar mainstream brands (not to mention an emphasis on "healthy" stuff like granola bars and not proper chocolate ). Older members may remember "Panda Cola" which was awful and frankly the RSPB equivalent now is as bad, so I always have Diet Coke in the car.

Great cakes in a lot of places though!

John

 

[Mono]

Equality Diversity and Inclusion, unconscious bias training introduced for staff all costing millions

Any evidence for that assertion? Of the RSPB staff I know precisely zero has undertaken any such training.

The RSPB was founded as a campaigning organisation to oppose the feather trade, it has been involved in political campaigning for its entire history.

The reasons for the review are twofold.
The biggest is pensions, the RSPB has a deficit in its pension scheme. For years the RSPB, like many organisations, offered a defined benefit pension scheme (it closed the scheme some years ago). Now many of those holding the pension are retiring and it is predicted that the amount the scheme holds will be insufficient to cover the costs. This is in large part down to the 2008 financial crash. The RSPB needs to both increase income and decrease costs to cover the shortfall.

The second reason is to rationalise management structures. The RSPB runs many sites, some for many decades, and each has developed its own local staff structure. This diversity of approach costs time and money to manage at an administrative level. So staff posts are being jigged around to provide a more consistent structure.

Such reviews have happen about every decade, some staff I know are going through their third. It has been made clear that no reserves are going to be sold off, although some leased land may not have their leases renewed.

My biggest concerns with the review are twofold. The first is that the on site education provision has been scrapped. Every year tens of thousands of school children were welcomed onto reserves and lead through activities by specialist RSPB staff. This has now be scrapped. It did cost RSPB money but I would argue that education of the next generation is a fundamental part of RSPB's charitable purpose.

My second concern was how the review happened. Staff were told over a year ago that the review was happening and that their job may be at risk. They have had to live with that uncertainty and with the restructuring many have had to apply for their own jobs on new terms or new hours. There has also been a halt to hiring whilst the review was going on. People were not replaced adding to the work load of those left. All these pressures have lead to a very significant dip in morale. Most of the rehiring has happened and there is certainly a feeling that they are coming out the other side.

None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with woke-ness!

 

[Isthatascratch?]

This is purely my opinion but I believe one reason the cafes might be losing money is the policy of serving only fairtrade stuff instead of familiar mainstream brands (not to mention an emphasis on "healthy" stuff like granola bars and not proper chocolate ). Older members may remember "Panda Cola" which was awful and frankly the RSPB equivalent now is as bad, so I always have Diet Coke in the car.

Great cakes in a lot of places though!

John

Panda was just drinkable… just!

 

[david kelly]

Any evidence for that assertion? Of the RSPB staff I know precisely zero has undertaken any such training.

The RSPB was founded as a campaigning organisation to oppose the feather trade, it has been involved in political campaigning for its entire history.

The reasons for the review are twofold.
The biggest is pensions, the RSPB has a deficit in its pension scheme. For years the RSPB, like many organisations, offered a defined benefit pension scheme (it closed the scheme some years ago). Now many of those holding the pension are retiring and it is predicted that the amount the scheme holds will be insufficient to cover the costs. This is in large part down to the 2008 financial crash. The RSPB needs to both increase income and decrease costs to cover the shortfall.

The second reason is to rationalise management structures. The RSPB runs many sites, some for many decades, and each has developed its own local staff structure. This diversity of approach costs time and money to manage at an administrative level. So staff posts are being jigged around to provide a more consistent structure.

Such reviews have happen about every decade, some staff I know are going through their third. It has been made clear that no reserves are going to be sold off, although some leased land may not have their leases renewed.

My biggest concerns with the review are twofold. The first is that the on site education provision has been scrapped. Every year tens of thousands of school children were welcomed onto reserves and lead through activities by specialist RSPB staff. This has now be scrapped. It did cost RSPB money but I would argue that education of the next generation is a fundamental part of RSPB's charitable purpose.

My second concern was how the review happened. Staff were told over a year ago that the review was happening and that their job may be at risk. They have had to live with that uncertainty and with the restructuring many have had to apply for their own jobs on new terms or new hours. There has also been a halt to hiring whilst the review was going on. People were not replaced adding to the work load of those left. All these pressures have lead to a very significant dip in morale. Most of the rehiring has happened and there is certainly a feeling that they are coming out the other side.

None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with woke-ness!

The problems with defined benefit pension schemes (final salary) schemes go way back beyond the 2008 crisis. The problems these schemes had are many and varied, far too complex to go into here, but the effects of 2008 are just a small part of that.

David

 

[Tableseed]

This is purely my opinion but I believe one reason the cafes might be losing money is the policy of serving only fairtrade stuff instead of familiar mainstream brands (not to mention an emphasis on "healthy" stuff like granola bars and not proper chocolate ). Older members may remember "Panda Cola" which was awful and frankly the RSPB equivalent now is as bad, so I always have Diet Coke in the car.

Great cakes in a lot of places though!

Jo

Any evidence for that assertion? Of the RSPB staff I know precisely zero has undertaken any such training.

The RSPB was founded as a campaigning organisation to oppose the feather trade, it has been involved in political campaigning for its entire history.

The reasons for the review are twofold.
The biggest is pensions, the RSPB has a deficit in its pension scheme. For years the RSPB, like many organisations, offered a defined benefit pension scheme (it closed the scheme some years ago). Now many of those holding the pension are retiring and it is predicted that the amount the scheme holds will be insufficient to cover the costs. This is in large part down to the 2008 financial crash. The RSPB needs to both increase income and decrease costs to cover the shortfall.

The second reason is to rationalise management structures. The RSPB runs many sites, some for many decades, and each has developed its own local staff structure. This diversity of approach costs time and money to manage at an administrative level. So staff posts are being jigged around to provide a more consistent structure.

Such reviews have happen about every decade, some staff I know are going through their third. It has been made clear that no reserves are going to be sold off, although some leased land may not have their leases renewed.

My biggest concerns with the review are twofold. The first is that the on site education provision has been scrapped. Every year tens of thousands of school children were welcomed onto reserves and lead through activities by specialist RSPB staff. This has now be scrapped. It did cost RSPB money but I would argue that education of the next generation is a fundamental part of RSPB's charitable purpose.

My second concern was how the review happened. Staff were told over a year ago that the review was happening and that their job may be at risk. They have had to live with that uncertainty and with the restructuring many have had to apply for their own jobs on new terms or new hours. There has also been a halt to hiring whilst the review was going on. People were not replaced adding to the work load of those left. All these pressures have lead to a very significant dip in morale. Most of the rehiring has happened and there is certainly a feeling that they are coming out the other side.

None of the above has anything whatsoever to do with wokeness!

Hi Mono, you will find in the 2019 strategy documents there was great emphasis on the EDI "framework" which included unconscious bias training which was referred to by one the volunteers at the RSPB in June 2021 given to all volunteers and staff.

You mentioned the pension deficit: I cannot see how the banking crisis of 2008 had an effect on the RSPB pension problems as the financial crash then affected the banks and not in this case the RSPB fund.

Yes the RSPB is a campaigning organisation but not a political one. The campaign to oppose the feather trade was a conservation issue. There is job duplication with teams of EDI staff relating to the sites which have meaningless job descriptions. It is not surprising the Education programe has had to be scrapped so much money wasted on vacuous activist jobs.

The entire "Transformation programe" of the RSPB has been a deception but will be denied. It has failed in its projections and we see Ms Kiceluk the founder activist has now left the organisation and will not be held to account for the frankly disastrous and costly consequences of her "Transformation Program."

We have seen woke ideology in action against Dr Paul Morrison i.e. a hypersensitivity to political correctness under the guise of nice words like inclusivity and equality in fact it is a political programe creating low morale and unpleasantness Strong leadership is vitally needed to counteract this damaging infiltration. Unfortunately the activists have a tireless dedication to opposing any different views.

 

[DMW]

My biggest concerns with the review are twofold. The first is that the on site education provision has been scrapped. Every year tens of thousands of school children were welcomed onto reserves and lead through activities by specialist RSPB staff. This has now be scrapped. It did cost RSPB money but I would argue that education of the next generation is a fundamental part of RSPB's charitable purpose.

While this is conventional wisdom, I wonder whether it really bears much scrutiny? Locally, the rate of conversion of school visits to young birders is zero. Admittedly this isn't a perfect proxy for the effect of environmental education, but it seems startling that almost everybody coming into birding (or more accurately, bird photography) is either middle-aged or retired.

It's notable elsewhere in the world there's a reasonably healthy cohort of keen younger birders, but in the British Isles this seems to be much less the case. Perhaps ending school visits was a pragmatic approach to this reality.

 

[Farnboro John]

While this is conventional wisdom, I wonder whether it really bears much scrutiny? Locally, the rate of conversion of school visits to young birders is zero. Admittedly this isn't a perfect proxy for the effect of environmental education, but it seems startling that almost everybody coming into birding (or more accurately, bird photography) is either middle-aged or retired.

It's notable elsewhere in the world there's a reasonably healthy cohort of keen younger birders, but in the British Isles this seems to be much less the case. Perhaps ending school visits was a pragmatic approach to this reality.

I tend to agree with this. Given peer pressure I doubt many school children (or pupils, I'm not prepared to call sub-university kids students regardless of woke practice) would even admit to a hobby-style interest in birds on or after a school visit, the risk to their street cred is too high.

John

 

[Paul Chapman]

You mentioned the pension deficit: I cannot see how the banking crisis of 2008 had an effect on the RSPB pension problems as the financial crash then affected the banks and not in this case the RSPB fund.

Many years as a financial services & pensions litigation specialist. I'm guessing no one really wants a discussion of the balancing exercise between the effects of the financial crisis on the value of underlying pension assets & the welcome reduction of the cost of final salary benefits (to the Schemes) ameliorating reserving, improving buy out & other options, etc due to interest rate rises.

This discussion only really comes into play because of the sentiment expressed in this thread that somehow the senior management of the RSPB are immune from criticism for their challenges. On the information publicly available, it is very clear to me that they mismanaged their pensions position.

The RSPB is an immensely valuable institution which has made remarkable contributions to bird conservation in our densely populated country. It now faces financial difficulties (like most other UK individuals, companies and institutions). Rather than snidely questioning and critiquing them, we should be working out how we can help.

If an organisation accepts it has failed, it has some chance of improvement. I have got a lot of things wrong in my life. I have only ever improved outcomes when I have been honest about that.

All the best

Paul

 

[Paul Chapman]

While this is conventional wisdom, I wonder whether it really bears much scrutiny? Locally, the rate of conversion of school visits to young birders is zero. Admittedly this isn't a perfect proxy for the effect of environmental education, but it seems startling that almost everybody coming into birding (or more accurately, bird photography) is either middle-aged or retired.

It's notable elsewhere in the world there's a reasonably healthy cohort of keen younger birders, but in the British Isles this seems to be much less the case. Perhaps ending school visits was a pragmatic approach to this reality.

I tend to agree with this. Given peer pressure I doubt many school children (or pupils, I'm not prepared to call sub-university kids students regardless of woke practice) would even admit to a hobby-style interest in birds on or after a school visit, the risk to their street cred is too high.

John

About really the ages targeted & indeed, the nature of the engagement. I have seen exceptional engagement work done by other organisations targeted at young children & engagement in nature that I have no doubt will have lasting effects.

To be honest, giving up on this probably reflects more on how well (or not) the RSPB did this.....

All the best

Paul

 

[Farnboro John]

About really the ages targeted & indeed, the nature of the engagement. I have seen exceptional engagement work done by other organisations targeted at young children & engagement in nature that I have no doubt will have lasting effects.

To be honest, giving up on this probably reflects more on how well (or not) the RSPB did this.....

All the best

Paul

Yes, but sometimes the "school trip" isn't the ideal vehicle. I didn't mean to go further than that.

John

 

[Paul Chapman]

Yes, but sometimes the "school trip" isn't the ideal vehicle. I didn't mean to go further than that.

John

Indeed. Pressganging school kids en masse into anything is doomed to failure....

All the best

Paul

 

[IAN JAMES THOMPSON]

Hi Paul, having been a member of the RSPB for many years and following my own research, the RSPB was respected for its excellent scientific research, "science saves time" was the fundamental approach of the Charity followed by land purchase or if neccesary advocacy to government to pursade of the crucial environmental protection needed for a piece of land or to pursade members of why a land purchase was neccesary. It was excellent at fund raising. The Society avoided being political out of respect for the likely broad political persuasions of its members which it respected. Great care to answer questions raised about expenditure choices of the society at the AGM or members weekends. The Equalities Act too had been fully implimented too by Catriona Corefield by 2015 and accepted as the case in all four regions. Clear to see the wide appeal and desire already of bringing members in whatever their colour race or creed all of us having a love and joy of nature and conservation. Programmes in social media and televion clearly showing everyone is loved and welcomed by the RSPB!

Following the recruitment of Beccy Speight and the then Director of Human Resources, Anne Kiceluk put into action a "10 year Transformation Programme"of the RSPB. New jobs in"wellbeing"were advertised with vague job descriptions in Equality Diversity and Inclusion, unconscious bias training introduced for staff all costing millions in salaries over the planned 10 year period. The RSPB moved at this point from a science based organisation to an emphasis on social and political activism. A hypersensitivity to political correctness followed we saw how the RSPB supported Gay Pride. Politics was carefully avoided by the RSPB as it did not want to alienate members by showing any political bias. We have clearly seen the example too of the appalling treatment by the RSPB of Dr Paul Morrison in 2022 as a result of this social activism within the Society.

The leadership is weak having fallen for this persuasive but highly political woke ideology which has infiltrated the society. A new CEO is needed who prioritises and believes in science and whom the most senior member of staff is "Director of Conservation." Clarity with job descriptions and responsibility are needed instead of this vague management speak vacuous nothingness. I cancelled my considerable legacy to the RSPB in dispair at the utter unpleasant destructive costly nonsense that is woke ideology.
Best wishes Wendy Pye-Smith

I’m old enough to remember the days of applying for a permit for large numbers of RSPB reserves. And lots of RSPB reserves only open for 4 days a week, some less. Limited hours of opening and some RSPB reserves only open from April-September and even some reserves that didn’t need permits such as the Inch Marshes only open 3 days a week. And this might shock some younger RSPB members.Members at some RSPB reserves had to pay an admission charge as well, but less than non-members. Also no RSPB Visitor Centres, no Cafes or Shops at any RSPB reserves. And this might shock some younger members of the RSPB as well. There were no toilets at any RSPB reserves including Minsmere and Leighton Moss. It all changed around 1981 where a few lines about most RSPB reserves to start opening every day from dusk to dawn 7 days a week and open all as as all RSPB reserves having free admission for all RSPB members at all RSPB reserves and open every day o f the year except for Christmas Day and Boxing all year. And Leighton Moss was the first RSPB reserve that had a cafe and shop. There will be other oldies like me who will remember that on here and some have been an RSPB member longer than myself!

 

[mjh73]

Hi Mono, you will find in the 2019 strategy documents there was great emphasis on the EDI "framework" which included unconscious bias training which was referred to by one the volunteers at the RSPB in June 2021 given to all volunteers and staff.

You mentioned the pension deficit: I cannot see how the banking crisis of 2008 had an effect on the RSPB pension problems as the financial crash then affected the banks and not in this case the RSPB fund.

Yes the RSPB is a campaigning organisation but not a political one. The campaign to oppose the feather trade was a conservation issue. There is job duplication with teams of EDI staff relating to the sites which have meaningless job descriptions. It is not surprising the Education programe has had to be scrapped so much money wasted on vacuous activist jobs.

The entire "Transformation programe" of the RSPB has been a deception but will be denied. It has failed in its projections and we see Ms Kiceluk the founder activist has now left the organisation and will not be held to account for the frankly disastrous and costly consequences of her "Transformation Program."

We have seen woke ideology in action against Dr Paul Morrison i.e. a hypersensitivity to political correctness under the guise of nice words like inclusivity and equality in fact it is a political programe creating low morale and unpleasantness Strong leadership is vitally needed to counteract this damaging infiltration. Unfortunately the activists have a tireless dedication to opposing any different views.

Any evidence to support any of this rhetoric?

Disappointed to see 'woke' being thrown around indiscriminately in the thread. It typically is a reflex reaction of people who want to keep the old ways of doing things and think improving practices to give people who are different the opportunities they have previously had equal access to is a waste of money.

I volunteered with RSPB a bit in the 90s. The volunteer warden scheme was great fun but in hindsight accommodation, working practices , personnel vetting / risk management, OHS, PPE was often not to an acceptable level. The scheme has changed significantly from what I knew them and while a part of me wishes we could go back the grown up me knows that no sensible organisation would try to apply volunteer labour in that way in 2025!

 

[Andy Lakin]

How much are the RSPB spending investigating wildlife crime? Not knocking this at all but the results are often very poor due to the very strict rules regarding acceptable evidence the burden of proof etc. Surely the government should fund at least some of this. Also do offenders that get fined have to reimburse the RSPB at all for their costs? It is a very similar situation to the RSPCA with them spending vast amounts of money on prosecutions which not all supporters agree on.

Also people may disagree about all the diversity training etc but there are vast numbers of the population that you very rarely see on RSPB reserves. How many people of colour do you see? Personally I have come across very few even in areas where they represent a large proportion of the population

 

[WalterRayle]

This is purely my opinion but I believe one reason the cafes might be losing money is the policy of serving only fairtrade stuff instead of familiar mainstream brands (not to mention an emphasis on "healthy" stuff like granola bars and not proper chocolate ). Older members may remember "Panda Cola" which was awful and frankly the RSPB equivalent now is as bad, so I always have Diet Coke in the car.

Great cakes in a lot of places though!

John

I agree about the Panda cola, had forgotten it had even existed, does it still or has it gone the way of Pandas? good job I'm stocked up on Lucozade for my day out tomorrow I've suddenly got a craving for Panda Pops.... Thanks John.

 

[IAN JAMES THOMPSON]

My reading of some of the RSPB forums / FB groups is that the reaction is the other way - "if the organisation is closing facilities I will cease my memberahip" which of course would send it into a tailspin of vicious circles.

That is up to you. I will be remaining a member as I would always do in good and also times just like now in difficult times.

 

[IAN JAMES THOMPSON]

How much are the RSPB spending investigating wildlife crime? Not knocking this at all but the results are often very poor due to the very strict rules regarding acceptable evidence the burden of proof etc. Surely the government should fund at least some of this. Also do offenders that get fined have to reimburse the RSPB at all for their costs? It is a very similar situation to the RSPCA with them spending vast amounts of money on prosecutions which not all supporters agree on.

Also people may disagree about all the diversity training etc but there are vast numbers of the population that you very rarely see on RSPB reserves. How many people of colour do you see? Personally I have come across very few even in areas where they represent a large proportion of the population

At present there is no where to put anyone into prisons for most crimes. I won’t get in to an argument about diversity. As I know your views!

 

[Birdister]

I was reading the following editorial this morning from James Robinson, the RSPB’s Chief Operating Officer:

Guest editorial

There are some interesting quotes:

The review included our entire nature reserve network and other small pieces of land owned or managed by the RSPB.

Is there a distinction being drawn between (1) nature reserves, and (2) other pieces of land?

We need to ensure that we are equipped to continue to keep saving nature in the future, and to remain strong and viable it was clear that we needed to make some changes. This does not mean selling off large areas of land to the highest bidder or that any of our flagship nature reserves will disappear.

So smaller nature reserves may disappear (e.g. Marazion?), and smaller areas of land may be sold off to the highest bidder?

At some of our nature reserves, a small number of facilities are planned for closure or potential change of management. This includes five retail facilities, one cafe and four visitor centres across a total of seven sites. These are:

• the retail facility at RSPB Loch Garten, Highland;
• the retail facility at RSPB Newport Wetlands;
• the retail facility at RSPB Dungeness, Kent;
• the retail facility and visitor centre at Fairhaven Lake, Lancashire & North Merseyside;
• and the retail facility and café at RSPB Rainham Marshes, Essex, while the future management of the visitor centre will be explored over the next 12 months. The nature reserve will remain open.
• Additionally, options for the future of the reserves at Flatford Wildlife Garden, Suffolk, and RSPB Rye Meads, Hertfordshire – including potential change of management – are being reviewed during 2025.

Are the seven sites listed above the only ones where facilities are closing or being placed under new management? It is said that the 'small number of facilities' which are affected 'includes' those seven set out in the list. Is it limited to them?

At other sites, we are reducing our work to allow us to do more and make a bigger impact elsewhere. At these sites, which in all account for less than 1% of our landholding, this will mean working in partnership with other charities, community groups or local councils to find sustainable futures for these places.

Which other sites?

 

[Mike Crawley]

Are the seven sites listed above the only ones where facilities are closing or being placed under new management? It is said that the 'small number of facilities' which are affected 'includes' those seven set out in the list.



Which other sites?

In my humble opinion the 7 sites mentioned is not the full list.
I can only speak for my area but I know Burton Mere Wetlands (Cheshire/Wirral) and Conwy are impacted. People have had to apply for their own jobs (assuming they want to stay), fund raisers (the team who are paid to enrol new members) are being recruited and brand new proper café facilities and becoming "grab n go" sandwich and drinks shops. I haven’t heard what is happening to Conwy's (excellent) shop and Burton Mere doesn’t have a shop.
It’s lead to apathy from the regular visitors and despondency in the staff. Volunteers at Burton Mere have fielded complaints and tried to be diplomatic - they’re now recommending that disgruntled members contact head office to express their concerns.

 

[JTweedie]

Indeed. Pressganging school kids en masse into anything is doomed to failure....

All the best

Paul

I always think of school trips to an RSPB reserve to be just like visiting a castle or a museum. For most children it's just a day out away from school. Without doing some analysis I don't think it's easy to deduce how much influence such a trip would have on a child's interests. In my personal experience my interest came from seeing TV programmes such as The Really Wild Show. We didn't have a school trip to a reserve when I was younger. I came from a family with no car and no family members showing an interest in the natural world. I developed my interests as I became a young teenager, but with no guidance from any adults around me - it was all self-driven.