Saltator in Bucaramanga, Colombia (1 Viewer)

[FormerMemberfor15years]

Hi all,

Saltators are usually easy to identify, but I'm surprised of this juvenile. According to the list of Santander, with with a big bill and adults seen around it would be a Buff-throated Saltator.

However, I've never seen such a dark and streaked underparts elsewhere, Mexico, Costa Rica...

I would like to have a confirmation of the identification and, if you can, tell me is this plumage is specific to the local (nominative ?) subspecies ? Did I miss something ?

Thanks

 

[THE_FERN]

Surely juvenile streaked---like this:

ML617904213 - Streaked Saltator - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML617904213; © Anonymous; Bolívar, Colombia

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

Surely juvenile streaked---like this:

ML617904213 - Streaked Saltator - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML617904213; © Anonymous; Bolívar, Colombia

macaulaylibrary.org

I don't think so but I'm willing to learn. Size, tail and bill length, colour, all different from juvenile Streaked Saltators I've seen on the same sites in Bucaramanga.

 

[THE_FERN]

On the op image you can see the pale bill tip starting to appear. Buff-throated saltator would differ greatly, e.g. by yellowish-green tail, bright uniform yellow-green upper parts, unstreaked underparts [streaked here], green on the rear crown. As far as I can see, it never has the white semi-circle under the eye which we can see here (and which streaked often has)

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

On the op image you can see the pale bill tip starting to appear. Buff-throated saltator would differ greatly, e.g. by yellowish-green tail, bright uniform yellow-green upper parts, unstreaked underparts [streaked here], green on the rear crown. As far as I can see, it never has the white semi-circle under the eye which we can see here (and which streaked often has)

I agree Buff-throated should be different, hence my post. But how can be one individual Streaked so different ? Longer tail, longer bill, curved upper mandible, much darker and much larger in size (I've seen them both on the same feeders in Loma Merchán to compare).

There are several of these "big streaked" saltators, not just one individual. I've seen juveniles and adults Streaked, juveniles and adults Olive-grey... and no juvenile Buff-throated although it is a common species here. Size and shape matching, I thought the OP phenotype could be the juvenile Buff-throated here.

 

[njlarsen]

It seems to be that the facial markings are typical for Striated. Variation within this is described as

Nominate race has crown greyish-green, becoming more green on back and upperwing-coverts; rump greyish; flight-feathers blackish, broad olive-green edgings on outer webs, tertials with entire outer web greenish (giving olive-green appearance to closed wing), rectrices dull grey-brown; narrow supercilium in front of eye buffy white, area above eye whitish, lores and ear-coverts brownish-grey, dusky malar line slightly highlighted by some narrow off-white feathers separating it from plain lower face; throat whitish, chest off-white with diffuse darker streaks, belly buff-white with diffuse grey-black streaks at side, vent and undertail-coverts buffy-white; iris brown; bill blackish with yellow gape and sometimes yellow tip; legs grey-black to black. Sexes alike. Juvenile is similar to adult, but colour of back duller and less green.

perstriatus is similar to nominate, but clear green, less greyish, above, more heavily streaked below, streaks extending onto abdomen, and bill almost always tipped yellow;

and these should be the two subspecies in Colombia.

Compare also this image from Colombia

ML427122281 - Streaked Saltator - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML427122281; © Anonymous; Bolívar, Colombia

macaulaylibrary.org

Hope this helps

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

It seems to be that the facial markings are typical for Striated. Variation within this is described as


and these should be the two subspecies in Colombia.

Compare also this image from Colombia

ML427122281 - Streaked Saltator - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML427122281; © Anonymous; Bolívar, Colombia

macaulaylibrary.org

Hope this helps

Thank you Nils, isn't obvious for you that these two bird are clearly different, too different to be the same taxon. Subspecies are supposed to be allopatric or they intergrate/hybridize, while we have clearcut differences here (as said, I've seen several individual of both phenotypes - no intermediates).

Or one of the two would be a migrant, or they are sympatric then two species are involved ; but in these two cases, it would be a significant new information.

Note that my OP bird has a huge bill, and BOW said that Streaked Saltators "are not particularly large billed for a saltator".

If there's such a big variation in bill size within Streaked S. subspecies, is it possible than no one noticed yet ?

I still feel we are missing something here.

I keed digging. I plan to work in Bucaramanga if I get my residence permit in Colombia, then I'll find out.

 

[THE_FERN]

The only other option is (old money) greyish where NSAM claims juvenile has faint streaks. Macauley images don't really show this, I think the bill is the wrong colour as are the greenish tinges to the wings. I see various streaked saltator images in Macauley which to my eye are the same as the one here

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

These a 3 Grey-olive Saltators taken in the same place. The two first show one typical juvenile IMO. The last one, I'm not sure, slightly streaked, unusual for an adult. It is grey as adults, May be a kind of post-juvenile moult situation ?

 

[njlarsen]

Thank you Nils, isn't obvious for you that these two bird are clearly different, too different to be the same taxon. Subspecies are supposed to be allopatric or they integrate/hybridize, while we have clear-cut differences here (as said, I've seen several individual of both phenotypes - no intermediates).

I would not exclude movement (for example elevational) among types here or subspecies being segregated by elevation. Likewise, I will not exclude that there is unrecognized variation at species level either, think about how recent the split of Greyish S was.

It will be interesting to see what you come up with.
Niels

 

[FormerMemberfor15years]

I would not exclude movement (for example elevational) among types here or subspecies being segregated by elevation. Likewise, I will not exclude that there is unrecognized variation at species level either, think about how recent the split of Greyish S was.

It will be interesting to see what you come up with.
Niels

Thank you Niels.

I've seen young Streaked Saltators born in a parc in Bucaramanga, they are of the "normal" (small-billed) phenotype. So the question remains for my OP bird.

The local subspecies (in Santander) should be Saltator striatipectus striatipectus following BOW. If the OP bird belong to another ssp, the only possibility is Saltator striatipectus perstriatus.

I'm not convinced, but I don't have a better explanation at this stage. I should be back there around the 20th of December. Much more exciting, I found the a nest of Niceforo's Wren, undescribed according to BOW. The owner of the land is going to watch the nest daily and keep me informed of the breeding activity.