Sand Martin ?? N West UK (1 Viewer)

[Bananafishbones]

I think this is a Sand Martin, Just wanting confirmation.

Mixed in with a large group of swallow feeding over a reservoir

Dave

 

[John P]

Looks like Sand Martin to me.

 

[Bananafishbones]

Thanks John

Self spotted Lifer for me!!

 

[phil baber]

Notice that little brown breast band on the 2nd photo and the overall pale sandy brown colouration to the upperparts. A nice bird always. Lots going through at the moment.

 

[Pete Mella]

Spot on, and nicely caught in flight. You can make out the band across the chest in the second pic. There'll be a few mixed in with big groups of swallows and martins at the moment so scan them well - best ID is the lack of a white rump which sets it apart easily from house martins.

 

[Bananafishbones]

Cheers Guys

Yes there have been very large groups of House martins yesterday in and around Macc Forest, then today this group of 100+ Swallows (with more than a few Sand Martins mixed in)

Dave

 

[ANdy5551]

Looks far too dark for a sand martin, upperparts are usually alot lighter in juvenile sands wheras this one has all the hall marks of a house martin as its upperparts, at least those visible, are very dark indeed.

Sand martins are actually much more brown, sandy, especially juveniles, excuse the obvious pun. I can see the vague band across the chest but have seen juvenile house martins with these bands, literally having seen them fledge staright out of a house martin nest. Sand martin bands are generally very very noticeable and quite thick, often with a dark line running vertically down the chest also in juveniles. The band on this bird for me is too vague and the head is too dark and does not show enough brown.

It is also possible that it cold be a sand/house cross, which is not all that uncommon as is a house/swallow cross.

 

[ANdy5551]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvverde/2690487212/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/elidas/1313670984/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/m_geven/219923726/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bmenton/2675050204/

a good example of a juvenile house martin with more than just a touch of a chest band and some adults with chest bands too

 

[Pete Mella]

I suppose the quick way to answer it is - did you see if it had a white rump?

 

[Angnix]

I think it's a Bank Swallow... Heh, just kidding, I know they are the same bird.

Here in America, I keep having difficulty separating them from Rough-wings in flight.

 

[nickderry]

I think I'm with Andy on this one, when I opened the first pic I was all ready to say no, it's a house. The second pic does have a breast band, but I was surprised at how pale and indistinct it looked - and now we see that house martins can have a breast band....

 

[Pete Mella]

I think I'm with Andy on this one, when I opened the first pic I was all ready to say no, it's a house. The second pic does have a breast band, but I was surprised at how pale and indistinct it looked - and now we see that house martins can have a breast band....

To be honest I only had a look at the second photo - the first one does look very dark, and I didn't realise juv house martins could have such a distinct band... willing to be proved wrong on this one! Sorry, Banana...

 

[Jane Turner]

Looks like a House Martin to me

 

[ANdy5551]

Whilst I hate to be a spoil sport, these show how distinct the bands are on sand martins and also that they have a dark line down the centre of the chest also, sorry but what you saw is undoubtedly a House martin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonymorris/2294066558/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yeliseev/216842416/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3611967418/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelpye/3791979674/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelpye/3791979338/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dicon/166515102/

 

[lou salomon]

Whilst I hate to be a spoil sport, these show how distinct the bands are on sand martins and also that they have a dark line down the centre of the chest also, sorry but what you saw is undoubtedly a House martin.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonymorris/2294066558/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yeliseev/216842416/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3611967418/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelpye/3791979674/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelpye/3791979338/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dicon/166515102/

i absolutely agree. well done andy with those comparative links. not only is the breast band broader in sand martin and there is the long line down the chest but the sides of upper breast are brownish - they're definitely white in the subject juvenile house martin. also, house martin has broader wings in my impression.

 

[James Lidster]

House Martin for me too
Cheers
James

 

[Bananafishbones]

Wow

Just got in from work and found this debate.

I think I have a few more pics that I will upload shortly.

Yesterday I was in a similar area about a mile further on and witnessed around 50 house martins flying over the main forest, these were certainly ALL house martins. No Swallows around yesterday at all.

Today I only got as far as the reservoir (not the forest) and I didnt see any house martins, only Swallows until I spotted this fella, so I guessed it was a different bird altogether.... I E not house martin... I stayed for about 2 1/2 hrs and still only saw Swalows .

Anyway I will see if I can find another pic

Otherwise no Sand Martin

Such is life
Dave

 

[Bananafishbones]

Last Pic

This one clearly shows the neck band, gutted the quality of pic is poor

Does this help to provide a positive ID either way?

Am I seeing a dark line down the breast or is it too late at night and too many Malts to be doing this????

Cheers

Dave

 

[lou salomon]

the case is sorted, dave - it's house martin.

 

[Sy V]

Its twisted torso shows the characteristic white rump of the HOUMA too. Sorry Dave.