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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Howard King" data-source="post: 1592061" data-attributes="member: 28628">For me at least these pictures illustrate just how difficult and complex an issue the ID for these two species is -- I have read through everything I can get my hands on and at the end of the day remain to a certain degree undecided on certain ID pointers mentioned within this thread and what I have read. If I go to the shore I can guarantee seeing at least one Greater and a Lesser, almost twelve months of the year. Without wanting to sound patronizing and no offense to anyone is intended - I never give thought to; if an isolated bird is cute or balanced, square head or such - I look to the bill first and foremost - irrespective of my impression of size of the bird or length of the bill - if the culmenary bulge or knobbly bit on the bill (1) if it is short Lesser (2) if it looks like it is up to half way Greater -  then I look to the shape of the tip for confirmation. Applying this simple rule to Dave's bird one can only conclude Dave is right on his ID's - simplistic - yes  -For birds which remain unidentifiable or in question I then start looking at the Jizz of the bird - first the wing and flanks, how these lay on the bird - just look at the pictures of each species and this becomes a point worthy of note - and then the balance of the bird about the point where the legs join the body and ask how much bulk has the bird in front or behind. If I can't sort it then I move on... whats one more or less here of either species in the thousands we have. This might not help identifying an isolated vagrant somewhere but it is to me the best place to start to resolve the ID. Comments in various texts such that birds with black or dark legs will be Lesser, or have Long legs over short legs or my pet hate, those showing some  post breeding colour will be Lesser. Those with big eyes will be Greater, Greater looks ugly and is ungainly or has a square head - all these are indicators only that in my experience are prone to error. While out here these last few day (we currently have a Holiday) Eid Mubarak one and all, I made this little compilation - A bog standard Greater and a bog standard Lesser  - but they do illustrate I feel the points I make - What people have to remember is that in either species as Dave's pictures show there are exceptions but to end what are the chances of one of  these exceptions being the vagrant over the bog standard.</blockquote>

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