Sedge Warbler in south of Swedish (1 Viewer)

[Aladdin]

Dear Members and Bird Watchers!

Warblers in America is very beautiful and colourful. The Americans told me that they wanted to come to Europe to watch warblers and I told them that they are all looking the same, grey / greenish and a pain in the ... to ID.

I had no luck with the Black Stork this morning but there were several warblers. The reeds and bushes along the stream is full.

Almost impossible to spot them. I managed to spot 2 of them, picture 1to3 looks to have black spots on the chin.

Pic 1 to 3 is the same bird
Pic 4 to 6 is the same bird
I have ID them as Sedge Warblers but I really do not know.

Standing at the stream and it was almost impossible to record the birds as there were so many. So the attached recording, I think it is the first (Pic 1 to 3) bird I got on the recording.

But impossible for me to be sure it is the sedge warbler or any other of the warblers in the bushes.

Kind Regards and Happy Birding
Aladdin

 

[Southern Viking]

Marsh Warbler

 

[kuzeycem]

The recording is a Sedge, but all the photos show Marsh Warblers

 

[Aladdin]

Marsh Warbler

Thank you very much Southern Viking!

Highly appreciated!

Kind Regards
Aladdin

 

[Aladdin]

The recording is a Sedge, but all the photos show Marsh Warblers

Thank you very much kuzeycem!

It was very hard to make recordings as it was next to impossible to see the birds and there were bird songs from all the bushes.

Highly appreciated!

Kind Regards
Aladdin

​

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Can anyone explain to the OP why it isn't the very very similar Reed Warbler?

Often, pictures of these species on birding sites are not enough for the identification.

 

[Southern Viking]

Marsh Warbler indicators are colder (as in less rufous) above, pale tips to primaries, browner legs etc

 

[Butty]

I have ID them [photos] as Sedge Warblers but I really do not know

That species is ruled out immediately as it has strongly streaked/marked upperparts and a long thick contrasting supercilium, neither of which is present here. Your field guide will show this clearly 👍🏼
The 'black spots on the chin' (actually largely on the throat) are just areas where the feathers are separated and thus the blackish feather-bases are visible. Ignore them.

 

[Aladdin]

That species is ruled out immediately as it has strongly streaked/marked upperparts and a long thick contrasting supercilium, neither of which is present here. Your field guide will show this clearly 👍🏼
The 'black spots on the chin' (actually largely on the throat) are just areas where the feathers are separated and thus the blackish feather-bases are visible. Ignore them.

Thank you Butty!

I did not bring my "Svensson" as I cannot read it. I have changed most of my guides for ebooks, but I cannot find the "Svensson" as ebook.

I hope they will issue the book soon. The book is excellent, but it is very small so both text and pictures makes me dizzy trying to read it.

Kind Regards
Aladdin

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

in picture 3 the longest tertial is slightly longer than the seondaries, and this seems to be just the case (?) in the second bird in picture 5.
This is another pro Marsh feature according to literature (and quite a few Marsh Warbler I checked have this)

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

Marsh Warbler indicators are colder (as in less rufous) above, pale tips to primaries, browner legs etc

Just out of interest, even specialists need to have them in their hands to be sure. When you observe them, at least 10 (visible) features are important for the identification. None of them is decisive. The pale tips to the primaries of the first bird may look impressive but is this enough?

My point is, forum members may get the impression that this case is easily solved by the experts. Probably it is, if 80% of the features are pro Marsh. Or should it be 90%? What I would like to hear is what criteria are used and how the 'calculation' is done. For instance, what to do with the long bill of the second bird?

Again, this is just out of interest, I know there are warbler experts around here, please share your knowledge so we all can learn from this

 

[kuzeycem]

Just out of interest, even specialists need to have them in their hands to be sure. When you observe them, at least 10 visible features are important for the identification. None of them is decisive. The pale tips to the primaries of the first bird may look impressive but is this enough? Don't think so.

My point is, forum members may get the impression that this case is solved by the experts. Probably it is, if 80% of the features are pro Marsh. Or should it be 90%? What I would like to hear is what criteria are used and how the 'calculation' is done. For instance, what to do with the long bill of the second bird?

Again, this is just out of interest, I know there are warbler experts around here, please share your knowledge so we all can learn from this

As someone who has always had a special interest in Marsh vs Common Reed ID (not to say I'm absolutely perfect at it!) and also someone who will readily admit to leaving many 1cy in autumn unassigned to a species, I can confidently (for whatever that's worth) say that these birds tick all the boxes for Marsh Warbler. I understand where you're coming from but I genuinely think Common Reed can safely be eliminated on the following:
1) more rounded crown
2) slightly shorter, less spiky-looking bill with slightly convex mandibles
3) supercilium more eye-catching than the eye-ring, lacks the 'googly' look of most Reed
4) cold colouration with faint tinges of green, though I'll admit the light conditions in these shots aren't favorable for a good assesment of this
5) distinctly pale edged tertials
6) long pp with primaries rather evenly spaced, white tips to pp. When discussing fuscus the long pp+white tips can be a bit moot as some moult late like Marsh Warbler. But in Sweden this should still be a valid ID point.
7) longest tertial extends beyond the secondaries
9) rather pale yellow-pink legs
Also for the second bird (4-6), the p3 emargination appears further than (i.e. closer to the wingtip) the tips of secondaries.
Finally, not worth much but still should be mentioned, the bird appears to be in prime Marsh Warbler breeding habitat.

 

[TheBlackGrouse]

As someone who has always had a special interest in Marsh vs Common Reed ID (not to say I'm absolutely perfect at it!) and also someone who will readily admit to leaving many 1cy in autumn unassigned to a species, I can confidently (for whatever that's worth) say that these birds tick all the boxes for Marsh Warbler. I understand where you're coming from but I genuinely think Common Reed can safely be eliminated on the following:
1) more rounded crown
2) slightly shorter, less spiky-looking bill with slightly convex mandibles
3) supercilium more eye-catching than the eye-ring, lacks the 'googly' look of most Reed
4) cold colouration with faint tinges of green, though I'll admit the light conditions in these shots aren't favorable for a good assesment of this
5) distinctly pale edged tertials
6) long pp with primaries rather evenly spaced, white tips to pp. When discussing fuscus the long pp+white tips can be a bit moot as some moult late like Marsh Warbler. But in Sweden this should still be a valid ID point.
7) longest tertial extends beyond the secondariss
7) rather pale yellow-pink legs
Also for the second bird (4-6), the p3 emargination appears further than (i.e. closer to the wingtip) the tips of secondaries.
Finally, not worth much but still should be mentioned, the bird appears to be in prime Marsh Warbler breeding habitat.

Thanks! That's a fast answer

Very informative.

During breeding season survey visits I use other criteria like date, habitat, sound, behavior, shape. It is not often that you have to look at specific features but I should know them, so it's good to go back to the guides and study threads like this.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,
wow, thanks Kuzeycem!

 

[gusasp]

What's with the "Swedish" in the thread title? Should be Sweden! ;-)