Seri Manjung Eagle ID please (1 Viewer)

johnallcock

Well-known member
Definitely Crested Serpent Eagle. The broad white bands on the wings and tail are distinctive, as is the extensive bare facial skin.
 

delia todd

If I said the wrong thing it was a Senior Moment
Staff member
Scotland
Thanks for the confirmation too John.

Think I'll be adding this one to The Opus article.. Cheers guys.
 

Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
Definitely Crested Serpent Eagle. The broad white bands on the wings and tail are distinctive, as is the extensive bare facial skin.

Those are also features of Mountain Serpent Eagle though John ;).

Looking at Deb's linked image of MSE I can see what she means amount the structural difference in the wings. I had real trouble with these in Borneo, and left without clinching MSE :-C
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
You beat me to it Larry - I’m not sure as separating criteria how helpful that is - both loosely fit this description however I don’t think John was making a comparative observation, just iding the image (perhaps not realising the photographer was asking if it was an either or!)

https://ebird.org/species/moseag1 MSE

https://ebird.org/species/crseag1 CSE

However to avoid confusion, as well as wing structure, the markings at the base of the outer primaries between MSE and CSE are different - a more distinctive ‘extra’ bar in CSE creating a clear double row on the hand (adding to the impression of a longer hand)

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=838&Bird_Image_ID=172734

cf to MSE

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_ID=840&Bird_Image_ID=40902&Location=

(I should add I have absolutely no experience of Mountain Serpent Eagle)
 
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Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
the markings at the base of the outer primaries between MSE and CSE are different - a more distinctive ‘extra’ bar in CSE creating a clear double row on the hand (adding to the impression of a longer hand)
)

Aha, I'm glad you mentioned that. I'd noticed it from your original links, but didn't look at any further images, and I wondered if it was a feature, or just something that didn't show up in the first image due to distance etc
 

Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
.. and just looked at the field guide I have for Borneo S. Myers), so it's interesting to see what's mentioned. It actually days that MSE is longer winged, and says darker underwing coverts, but doesn't mention the 'comma' difference. The illustration shows darker underwing coverts, but doesn't show a difference in presence or absence of that 'comma'. It mentions a more conspicuous white tail band. Interesting!
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
.. and just looked at the field guide I have for Borneo S. Myers), so it's interesting to see what's mentioned. It actually days that MSE is longer winged, and says darker underwing coverts, but doesn't mention the 'comma' difference. The illustration shows darker underwing coverts, but doesn't show a difference in presence or absence of that 'comma'. It mentions a more conspicuous white tail band. Interesting!

I must admit, I haven’t really looked up any measurements for MSE so that’s interesting - of course wingshape ie narrow v broad and hand v arm proportion can definitely affect impression of winglength so comparing still photos could understandably be misleading - good note to self - don’t comment on species you’ve never seen even if you are familiar with the one you are comparing it to! :king:
 
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Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
I must admit, I haven’t really looked up any measurements for MSE so that’s interesting - of course wingshape ie narrow v broad and hand v arm proportion can definitely affect impression of winglength so comparing still photos could understandably be misleading - good note to self - don’t comment on species you’ve never seen even if you are familiar with the one you are comparing it to! :king:

I'm not suggesting the field guide is necessarily accurate. It's all I had to go on when I was there though :smoke:
 

andyb39

Well-known member
We seem to be overlooking the fact that the photo was taken in Perak, which is on the mainland, not in Borneo (MSE is a Bornean endemic). MSE has a limited distribution even in Sabah and Sarawak and is probably sometimes confused with the local subspecies of CSE.
 

johnallcock

Well-known member
Those are also features of Mountain Serpent Eagle though John ;).

Looking at Deb's linked image of MSE I can see what she means amount the structural difference in the wings. I had real trouble with these in Borneo, and left without clinching MSE :-C

Sorry, you're right. I read the post as asking whether the bird was Mountain HAWK Eagle, I'd completely forgotten that there was a Mountain SERPENT Eagle on Borneo. It's taken me three re-reads to understand what was really being asked!

I have no experience separating those two, so disregard my comment. (Although if it's from the mainland as Andy says, then it must be Crested).
 

Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
I have no experience separating those two, so disregard my comment. (Although if it's from the mainland as Andy says, then it must be Crested).

So disregard the distinguishing features I pointed out above and just ID this as CSE as distinct from MSE on range? .

Without having seen MSE (have any of us here?!), and my only experience of CSE is with the nominate in India rather than more Eastern ssp, (I doubt the ssp of CSE vary to the extent MSE becomes a major confusion risk on Borneo if you are pretty familiar with CSE) it seems pretty obvious to me, even just looking at images that the two species have a very different wing structure and differences in the underwing pattern regardless of range - Of course in the light of Andy’s comments, so MSE can be ruled out on range but given this wasnt checked, (I didn’t check the location of the photo either) does this devalue that it can also be ruled out on structure etc?

( I should have assumed MSE was aka a Kalimantan Eagle for a reason!)
 
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Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
Those are also features of Mountain Serpent Eagle though John ;).

Looking at Deb's linked image of MSE I can see what she means amount the structural difference in the wings. I had real trouble with these in Borneo, and left without clinching MSE :-C

This would be a highly, unlikley record as stated above. Apart from altitude (not below 1000m), if I recall from my distant days in Borneo, MSE is a pretty big rare which few (reliably) connect with?
 
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Deb Burhinus

Used to be well known! 😎
Europe
This would be a highly, unlikley record as stated above. Apart from altitude (not below 1000m), if I recall from my distant days in Borneo, MSE is a pretty big rare which few (reliably) connect with?

CSE is usually found at lower altitudes so even where locations overlap, I suspect they wouldn’t share the same habitat either.
 

andyb39

Well-known member
I think MSE probably is separable with care, and as Andy says, it's found exclusively at higher altitudes.
 

Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
I think MSE probably is separable with care, and as Andy says, it's found exclusively at higher altitudes.

I'm not sure about exclusively. The only serpent eagle I saw at high elevation in Sabah was at a site where MSE is seen (Rafflesia forest reserve). I saw it perched and reluctantly had to ID as CSE because it was pale and very spotty as I recall . Did I get it wrong?

I wonder if they are most regularly located and identified on call? At eg Mt Kinabalu it's really hard to find view points overlooking the canopy, which is probably why MSE is"t as easy as it could be
 

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
I'm not sure about exclusively. The only serpent eagle I saw at high elevation in Sabah was at a site where MSE is seen (Rafflesia forest reserve). I saw it perched and reluctantly had to ID as CSE because it was pale and very spotty as I recall . Did I get it wrong?

I wonder if they are most regularly located and identified on call? At eg Mt Kinabalu it's really hard to find view points overlooking the canopy, which is probably why MSE is"t as easy as it could be

Larry, CSE might go high but MSE don't go low, this is the point so any overlap would be above 1000m afaik which is not the case with the OP is it?

We only saw CSE at Danum Valley and Sukau according to my report.
 
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Larry Sweetland

Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
Larry, CSE might go high but MSE don't go low, this is the point so any overlap would be above 1000m afaik which is not the case with the OP is it?

We only saw CSE at Danum Valley and Sukau according to my report.

I was just responding to the statement , not making a comment about the OP
 

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