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SF, Noctivid, EL and now NL (1 Viewer)

[email protected]

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I don' like to go by what Allbino's states as their review is based on lab and not field application. I trust my own eyes and my own hands. If I like the bins, based upon my eyes and my knowledge, then I like the bin regardless of what Allbino's states. Also, Allbino fails to take into account ergonomics in my thinking which, are extremely important regarding the fun I derive from birding
I don't really care about ergonomics. It is all about the view with me. Anymore I don't mind a bigger heavier binocular if it gives me a better view. I agree with you that you need to trust your own eyes but in my experience my eyes agree with Allbinos results.
 

[email protected]

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"So called experts" are everywhere now thanks to Google IMHO, "Experts" however deserve our respect (glad we have your input on this forum Bill ).

I looked at the Allbinos rankings to see what I was missing, 7x50, 10x50 and 8x56, not a popular choice for Birding, 10x50 has made a comeback almost entirely down to the SV which is ranked just 0.4 points behind the Fujinon and would make a massively better Birding tool IMO.

The top popular Birding formats in 42 and 32mm are all premium roofs.

If you needed life saving surgery would you trust a Surgeon (with a resume like Bill in their field) or Dr Google who tells you Leaches have always proved effective ?
I appreciate Billy's input also, but I still trust my own eyes more when choosing a binocular. I know a 10x50 or 7x50 is not a popular choice for birding especially porros and I know the reasons for it, but I am thinking outside the box. I don't care if a 10x50 or a 7x50 is not popular with the masses. My top priority is the view and a 7x50 and 10x50 porro give me the best view. That is your opinion on the SV 10x50 being a much better birding tool. I can't tolerate the flat field view of a roof prism anymore, so I will put with a little less comfort in my binocular for the 3D view. It just comes down to personal preference. There is no reason really to argue about it. You prefer a roof and I prefer a porro. I am not trying to change your mind I am just explaining the reasons for my preference.
 
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Torview

Well-known member
I never said I prefer a roof over a porro, I love a good porro, Allbinos are a source for comparing stats rather than a "bible" for ranking binoculars IMHO.
 

lmans66

Out Birding....
Supporter
United States
I never said I prefer a roof over a porro, I love a good porro, Allbinos are a source for comparing stats rather than a "bible" for ranking binoculars IMHO.
Correct...Allbino's provides stats and I appreciate that. But my eyes and hands provide 'my ranking'
 

bkdc

Well-known member
If people preferred porros, they would buy porros. The marketplace is not being artificially distorted with people being deprived of porros. The majority of buyers don’t want the bulk, weight, lack of waterproofing, lack of eye relief, and the hassle of individual eye focus with the lack of versatility in a porro. You might find some exceptions to one of these hassles, but you can’t find a single porro that is compact, light, waterproof, has ample eye relief, has easy focusing.
 
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Anon2020

Active member
There are some debates which are simply not worth entering into.

You don’t debate the existence of god with a priest (actually, there’s no point in debating this subject with anyone).

Steer clear of politics.

And, judging from the relatively short time I’ve been reading this forum, don’t bother entering into a debate on any subject with Mr D.
 

WJC

Well-known member
If it were your bible, wouldn’t you agree with 100% and not just ALMOST 100%? But then, that’s why there are 96 translations of the bible in print. What rational person believes that a little Hebrew, a little Greek, and a sliver of Aramaic needs 96 translations? It just gives those who want DOCTRINE to conform to THEIR ideas and values a shot at making it so. What popularly passes for Christianity, today is a far cry from ... the gospel of Christ, and it’s why the more erudite largely shun all forms.

And Anon ... Amen!

Bill
 

lmans66

Out Birding....
Supporter
United States
and the hassle of individual eye focus with the lack of versatility in a porro.
That alone says it all. How one can really bird 'quickly' with a Porro and the focus is beyond me.... So just don't get it.
 

mtn

... winging it ....
Haven't tried NLs but have I own ELs, SLC, Ultravid HD (pre Noctovid) and SFs. Plus some porros ;)

Each has it's place for me... EL's (8.5x42) are my primary "birding" binoculars for when the leaves are off the trees. I love them... They suit me quite nicely and to my eyes offer a spectacular, utilitarian view. They are my favorites.
Ultravid HDs (7x42) are my primary birding binoculars for when the leaves are on the trees. I find their view as good as the ELs in most situations, and sometimes better. I love them as well.
Zeiss SFs (10x42) are my big field binoculars, for when I know there will be longer range viewing. They are top tier as well... the wide FOV for a 10x without much weight penalty is a fabulous asset.
I am in no rush to try NLs because I am very lucky to have the nice binoculars I do have and would have to sell a couple or few to buy the NLs and that would be a net loss for me unless they made amazing birds appear on command ;)
My Swift 8.5 porros are what my children use because the IPD works better for them than the 7x42s (B&L) I have waiting for them. They were my mom's and I inherited them when she passed. They are worn and loved and their FOV is modest but my kids see birds with them and get excited, so, I love them too.
If I could only keep one pair it would be my SLC 8X30s because the view is quite good and they are such a nice, well built, compact binocular that is more than adequate (and often advantageous) for 95% of the situations I find myself in.

My thoughts... No agenda and no science or religion to back me up... Just trying to chip away at the OPs original question.

In the purely hypothetical, if someone offered, I would probably trade my ELs for an NL just to see, but would keep my other bins because they each have a role.

Cheers
Daniel
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
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If people preferred porros, they would buy porros. The marketplace is not being artificially distorted with people being deprived of porros. The majority of buyers don’t want the bulk, weight, lack of waterproofing, lack of eye relief, and the hassle of individual eye focus with the lack of versatility in a porro. You might find some exceptions to one of these hassles, but you can’t find a single porro that is compact, light, waterproof, has ample eye relief, has easy focusing
That may be true but all is forgiven when I look through those big porros. The view! Oh my god the view just blows away roofs IMO. I don't think a lot of people have ever even tried a big porro. I hadn't because you don't even consider them. Most people go to Cabellas and buy a nice 8x32 roof prism because it feels nice in their hands, and it is small and light, and it works pretty good. Cabellas doesn't even stock any big porros prisms outside of some low-end Nikon Actions to try.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
I don' like to go by what Allbino's states as their review is based on lab and not field application. I trust my own eyes and my own hands. If I like the bins, based upon my eyes and my knowledge, then I like the bin regardless of what Allbino's states. Also, Allbino fails to take into account ergonomics in my thinking which, are extremely important regarding the fun I derive from birding
I don't really care about ergonomics. For me, it is all about the view. Everybody has different priorities though.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Wow....reall
If I sold a Swarovski NL for a Fujinon 7x50 FMTR-SX and that pretty much says I don't care about ergonomics because the NL is without a doubt a little more ergonomic. :ROFLMAO: Actually for a BIG binocular the Fujinon is pretty ergonomic though and is actually better in the hand and has better weight distribution because of the widely spaced objectives than some big 56 mm roofs.
 

lmans66

Out Birding....
Supporter
United States
I agree with that. I just wanted to make sure my point was made.:)
Hard to believe that ergonomics doesn't come into play with a decision about your bins....Now, I can see that if a person is in-experienced or novice,...just testing the water ... But from a person into Alpha's...well... That seems a bit bogus of a statement.

One of the beauties of today's binoculars 'up and down the line or price-point', is that manufacturers are finally taking into account ergonomics. We are approaching the point where physics is making it difficult to improve upon optics and perhaps the next stage is to shift from analog to digital optics (I won't go there). So manufacturers have started to look at ergonomics as a way to set their binocular a part from others. Now 'ergonomics' differs from 'quality'.... and that is where some people get mislead. But in terms of ergonomics, just look at Zeiss (Victory HT, SF and Conquest)or Leica (Ultravid and Noctivid)products.... or look at other lesser cost brands such as GPO or Opticron, who now see the light etc... They are looking at eye placement, finger placement, the feel of the outside rubber, weight distribution, focus wheel smoothness or even how the wheel is padded etc. Or ...even attaching a forehead brace (NL). Some brands are a bit behind times like Meopta and are looking at getting caught up with new designs, or even Swaro who had bins like 'bricks' have developed solid ergonomics such as the CL / EL/ NL. So to say that ergonomics do not come into play, just isn't right.

What is a 'feel good' optic to one person, is not for another....so regardless of optic quality, I am not going to buy any particular optic unless it passes by finger and eye test first.
 

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