• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

SFL 8x30 and Kidney Beaning (1 Viewer)

I guess you’d call it tunnel vision. I no longer see the full FOV. If I move the eyecups in one click it’s perfect
That's the classic result of being too far from the eyepiece, as blackouts are of being too close. I had this issue recently on FL 10x32 (due I think to its unusually fat eyecups) but it's easily solved by moving them in just a bit, where friction keeps them in place quite well without a click stop.
 
That's the classic result of being too far from the eyepiece, as blackouts are of being too close. I had this issue recently on FL 10x32 (due I think to its unusually fat eyecups) but it's easily solved by moving them in just a bit, where friction keeps them in place quite well without a click stop.
Yes, I’ve seen it before at one extreme or the other. This is just the first time I’ve seen it at both. I think the o-rings are a good solution so the eyecups don’t move during use. Looking over how people do this I’m going to switch it up and put the o-rings on the eyecups rather than on the threads
 
Oh, useful thread. I just got myself a pair of bins (monarch 7 8x30) and i have the same problem. While wearing sunglasses and using them they're absolutely fine and extremely nice, but with no glasses, i struggle. My eyes are way too close and i get all those black blobs. I'll have to see what I can find in terms of o-rings!
 
Maybe Zeiss themselves should diversify their business into the o-ring market, the need for them appears to be a trait across their premium lines of binoculars.

I'll get my coat...😉😇
They need to add more click stops.

Roger from scope reviews, in his review of the 8x32 SF said the EPs suffer from "spherical aberration of the exit pupil," so that might be the same issue with the 8x32 SFL.

I could use glasses for astigmatism but don't since it limits the number of binoculars I can use. The $79 7x35 Aculon was amazingly sharp in the centerfield with its aspherics optics. It only has 11.8mm ER, and the wide eyecups do not fit into my eye sockets, so I had to use the Aculon with the eyecups all the down, so my eyes were very close to the EPs, but I experienced no image blackouts even though my eyelashes were a couple mm from the lenses.

With the E2s, which have 13.8mm ER, I don't experience blackouts. However, with the Fuji 6x30 FMTR-SX, which has 20mm ER, I have to make sure my eyes are placed properly since the eyecups are narrow (but the EPs lenses are wide), it's easy to "fall into" the eyecups and get too close and get image blackouts. Opening the IPD a bit wider than what it takes to make a perfect circles makes eye placement less critical.

So, while high ER is valued by eyeglass wearers, I prefer shorter ER to avoid image blackouts, and it also seems to make the view more immersive.

Brock
 
I have finally "made peace" with my 8x42 SF's. It took a while - 6 months - but they are finally my favorite, most-used binos, as they should be, as the most expensive ones. The eye placement is critical. I don't wear glasses, and the eyecups don't extend far enough out. I found peace by unscrewing them 1 to 1.5 turns further out. Then, I put a swatch of blue masking tape on the rim of each one to mark the position.

After a few more sessions, I fine-tuned the placement even further, and they work even better. Yes, I would advise using rubber o-rings on the upper eyecup to help hold them in place. When I tried to place an o-ring on the threads below, it was a disaster, it didn't work and I was barely able to retrieve the o-ring from down low in the threaded channel.

Now, when I'm out birding, I can glance down periodically and check the tape to make sure the eyecups are in the right position. The result is comfortable viewing with minimal blackouts and blue color flashes. During this time, I've also been using Swaro 10x56 and EDG 7x and 10x, along with several vintage Nikon porros. The old porros' eyecups are all in the right spot, and the SLC and EDG are in the correct spot with eyecups extended all the way out. No eyecup or eye placement difficulties at all with any of those models.

I did try some 8x30 Nikon MHG's and they seemed to have the exact same trouble as SF - blackouts with the eyecups not extending far enough, so this does appear to be an issue that I need to watch out for with any new wide-field roof bino
 
I did try some 8x30 Nikon MHG's and they seemed to have the exact same trouble as SF - blackouts with the eyecups not extending far enough, so this does appear to be an issue that I need to watch out for with any new wide-field roof bino
As I too must in recent years, and not only "wide-field", even Ultravid 42s. If we must have all this eye relief, I don't understand why eyecups aren't made a bit deeper as well (2mm is generally all it would take).
 
As I too must in recent years, and not only "wide-field", even Ultravid 42s. If we must have all this eye relief, I don't understand why eyecups aren't made a bit deeper as well (2mm is generally all it would take).
I haven't done any serious field work with SFL 8x30 yet but the significant blackouts I noticed when first trying them out disappeared completely when I carefully set the IPD.
 
I haven't done any serious field work with SFL 8x30 yet but the significant blackouts I noticed when first trying them out disappeared completely when I carefully set the IPD.
I discovered the same thing yesterday while comparing the 8x30SFL and 8x32SF. It allows the eyecups to be set a bit lower. Helps the view immersiveness, which I find to be the biggest shortcoming of the 8x30.
 
I have finally "made peace" with my 8x42 SF's. It took a while - 6 months - but they are finally my favorite, most-used binos, as they should be, as the most expensive ones. The eye placement is critical. I don't wear glasses, and the eyecups don't extend far enough out. I found peace by unscrewing them 1 to 1.5 turns further out. Then, I put a swatch of blue masking tape on the rim of each one to mark the position.

After a few more sessions, I fine-tuned the placement even further, and they work even better. Yes, I would advise using rubber o-rings on the upper eyecup to help hold them in place. When I tried to place an o-ring on the threads below, it was a disaster, it didn't work and I was barely able to retrieve the o-ring from down low in the threaded channel.

Now, when I'm out birding, I can glance down periodically and check the tape to make sure the eyecups are in the right position. The result is comfortable viewing with minimal blackouts and blue color flashes. During this time, I've also been using Swaro 10x56 and EDG 7x and 10x, along with several vintage Nikon porros. The old porros' eyecups are all in the right spot, and the SLC and EDG are in the correct spot with eyecups extended all the way out. No eyecup or eye placement difficulties at all with any of those models.

I did try some 8x30 Nikon MHG's and they seemed to have the exact same trouble as SF - blackouts with the eyecups not extending far enough, so this does appear to be an issue that I need to watch out for with any new wide-field roof bino
Have you tried the SV EL 8x32? It does everything right for me. Immersive too.
 
I haven't done any serious field work with SFL 8x30 yet but the significant blackouts I noticed when first trying them out disappeared completely when I carefully set the IPD.
It's always the same old story: Once you get used to some new binoculars and learn how to set it up and use it properly, all (or at least most of) the "problems" you first encountered mysteriously disappear.

My impression is that kidney beaning, blackouts and the like are usually the result of a lack of experience and familiarity with a new pair of binoculars. Or, to put it more bluntly: User error.

Hermann
 
It's always the same old story: Once you get used to some new binoculars and learn how to set it up and use it properly, all (or at least most of) the "problems" you first encountered mysteriously disappear.

My impression is that kidney beaning, blackouts and the like are usually the result of a lack of experience and familiarity with a new pair of binoculars. Or, to put it more bluntly: User error.

Hermann

These blackouts are not user error at all, neither is the glare in the 8x32 NLs. These bins are more finicky in placement or adjustment, than most others, and even with extra care the issue is not fully resolved.
 
My impression is that kidney beaning, blackouts and the like are usually the result of a lack of experience and familiarity with a new pair of binoculars. Or, to put it more bluntly: User error
So I make an error using the SLF 8x30 but not the Zeiss VP 8x25, Curio 7x21, Ultravid 8x20, Trinovid 8x32, SF 8x32, NL Pure 8x32, SFL 8x40, etc?

Would you please explain what my error is and why after decades using binoculars, monoculars, scopes, telescopes, microscopes and cameras I still cannot use them properly?
 
These blackouts are not user error at all
I don't agree. I'm quite sure many (if not most) of them are.
neither is the glare in the 8x32 NLs
I mentioned neither glare nor the NLs in my post. With good reason. I'm convinced glare/veiling glare is often (although not always) the result of a sloppy construction. The Swarovski Habicht 8x30 is a prime example of that.
These bins are more finicky in placement or adjustment, than most others
Yes, probably. What's "finicky" and what isn't does depend on individual characteristics of the user though, at least to a large extent.
and even with extra care the issue is not fully resolved.
In most cases yes, it is.

Hermann
 
So I make an error using the SLF 8x30 but not the Zeiss VP 8x25, Curio 7x21, Ultravid 8x20, Trinovid 8x32, SF 8x32, NL Pure 8x32, SFL 8x40, etc?

Would you please explain what my error is and why after decades using binoculars, monoculars, scopes, telescopes, microscopes and cameras I still cannot use them properly?
The way you phrased it - no, I won't. You're obviously experienced enough after decades of experience using optics to sort that out yourself.

BTW, I don't think I'm less experienced than you.

Hermann
 
So we will never know what we are doing wrong to see kidney beaning in the SFL 8x30.
Too bad: I would have love to learn it from people who seem to have no first hand experience.
We will have to settle for "I know things and you don't", "I do not know you but I will tell you that you do not really know how to use binoculars" and other "general statements".

I'm glad I learned something useful today :unsure:
 
I don't agree. I'm quite sure many (if not most) of them are.

I mentioned neither glare nor the NLs in my post. With good reason. I'm convinced glare/veiling glare is often (although not always) the result of a sloppy construction. The Swarovski Habicht 8x30 is a prime example of that.

Yes, probably. What's "finicky" and what isn't does depend on individual characteristics of the user though, at least to a large extent.

In most cases yes, it is.

Hermann
Are you using the 8x30SFLs? If so, with eyeglasses?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top