sheepwash urban park (1 Viewer)

[Baggieshep]

Maybe I Left To Early

Hiya sheepwashers, not a great deal about the good stuff is waiting for Dave to get back from norfolk. 2 GS woodies and a fly over cormorant was all my lunch time fayre. Still a lot of human traffic and disturbance but tonight was tranquil:smoke:. A mixture of house mart and swift numbered around 70 but as dusk fell this changed to a ca 100 swift. Ca 150 gulls mainly BH a stark contrast to the other day. A mixed group of birds around a couple of pines by the school entrance included 2 juv coal tit 1 adult and willow warblers. I take on board what your saying Phil, not so long ago willow tits bred on the wash but I have to agree with Laurie a lot of birders don't submit what they see its there choice we don't all sing from the same hymn sheet:t:. Maybe I left the wash ten mins to early because as I got out of the car to go to the shop at Harvilles Hawthorne my attention was diverted to a calling wader a bloody Whimbrel over at 8 50 and no im not counting it as a sheepwash bird:C. Cheers and happy birdingB .

 

[rollingthunder]

Seeing is believeing........apparantly - it's a good job his Desert Wheatear :eek!:was around for everybody to enjoy

Laurie:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

Seeing is believeing........apparantly - it's a good job his Desert Wheatear :eek!:was around for everybody to enjoy

Laurie:t:

Just shows we all have different criteria as to what is a countable record.

 

[rollingthunder]

Phil - just out of interest and i do not wish to ruffle any feathers, would this bird have been accepted on the same criteria had any of the UW 'Rat Pack' claimed a calling bird?

Just an innocent question that is all.......

Laurie:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

Phil - just out of interest and i do not wish to ruffle any feathers, would this bird have been accepted on the same criteria had any of the UW 'Rat Pack' claimed a calling bird?

Just an innocent question that is all.......

Laurie:t:

I dont think any "innocent question" would include the phrase rat pack Trollingthunder.

Without wishing to bore followers of the SUP thread, to put this to bed I would advise that in the last 6 months we have formed an Upton Warren Rarities Committee to review with those species below the level of County Submission but are very rare on the reserve such as Nightingale, Dipper, Marsh Tit, Hawfinch, Corn Bunting etc. In respect to JK's Marsh Tit report we considered that given the wide range of calls potentially given by commoner tit species that would could not safely accept a record on call alone (especially for a species that has never satisfactorily been recorded at Upton). This burden of proof will be adopted on all future reports, whoever the reporter is. However, so Jason's report isn't lost and can be put in context of any future reports (confirmed or otherwise) it was included as a foot note in 2012 annual report.

 

[frisky pheasant]

I dont think any "innocent question" would include the phrase rat pack Trollingthunder.

Without wishing to bore followers of the SUP thread, to put this to bed I would advise that in the last 6 months we have formed an Upton Warren Rarities Committee to review with those species below the level of County Submission but are very rare on the reserve such as Nightingale, Dipper, Marsh Tit, Hawfinch, Corn Bunting etc. In respect to JK's Marsh Tit report we considered that given the wide range of calls potentially given by commoner tit species that would could not safely accept a record on call alone (especially for a species that has never satisfactorily been recorded at Upton). This burden of proof will be adopted on all future reports, whoever the reporter is. However, so Jason's report isn't lost and can be put in context of any future reports (confirmed or otherwise) it was included as a foot note in 2012 annual report.

I think your wasting your time replying Phil this guy has to much time on his hands :-O

 

[rollingthunder]

Hi FF - it's not a case of having too much time it's a case of seeking clarification on who might or might not get a record accepted and what the criteria is......

The term 'ratpack' is not a derogatory one and is not meant to be 'rude' as has been alluded to elsewhere. Every 'reserve' or birding hotspot has one and Phil well knows this - UW is no exception, Withymoor does not and at one stage, during the halcyon days when Geoff Williams did the place 2/3 times a day so did Sheepwash. Reserve 'ratpackers' are, by and large, a good bunch of regular birders that cover the place they might also have a few who have been appointed with badges and things and if allowed by the powers that be a habitat management regime. UW qualifies admirably on all counts.

Also included will be other birders whose pedigree and knowledge will be respected and unimpeachable and who would have no problem getting a species such as Marsh Tit accepted whether it is just a call or even a silhouette. Most of us have visited other reserves where these exist and god forbid you ever find anything as a single observer because it will be unlikely to be accepted unless accompanied by photographic evidence.

'Ratpackers' get the first call for a rarity and are generally there when a county first gets found or trapped or whatever - that's the way the system works. You ca'nt inform everybody so just the select few get the nod altho the internet and the advent of good, reasonably priced, digital camera stuff has made a dent into this scenario with regard to records and dissemination of information reasonably quickly.

I hope this clarifies my use of the word, it is not intended to generate any ill-feeling. I have the answer i was looking for which, for me, was contained 'in between' the lines. My apologies to Mark for hijacking the thread but, for me, it has been a useful exercise with hopefully no personal fallout with anybody particularly those who i have yet to meet

FF - you will find that almost all of my posts are early in the morning, very early in a lot of cases as i have other things to do during the day:t:

All the best until the next tete a tete -

Laurie:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

Yet again Laurie you cant resist the "inner sanctum" theory of a few controlling the masses. I have cleared stated the process at Upton Warren for considering non-County rarities that may be reported on the reserve when it comes to writing the annual report, this is the case for ALL birders - regulars and visitors alike.

Perhaps if I depart this thread and you the Upton thread the world will be a happier place?

 

[rollingthunder]

Good morning Phil i have my own theories on how these things work and i will keep them to myself (there, that's a first)

As far as i am concerned this is all in the context of good-natured banter and is extremely mild compared to what was said when i was actively twitching. I do not take much, if any, of this sort of thing either personally or seriously.

I hardly ever contribute to the UW forum as i do not go there however that will change next year as i am in the process of joining the Black Country Wildlife Thingy which, i believe, is part of the 'recoprical' arrangement for visiting and permit purposes? Couple with the acquistion of motorised transport very shortly and the world will be my oyster.

Thursdays:eek!: look good for finding something interesting there is only Adrian there by the looks of things...............

All the very best for now -

Laurie:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

i am in the process of joining the Black Country Wildlife Thingy which, i believe, is part of the 'recoprical' arrangement for visiting and permit purposes? Couple with the acquistion of motorised transport very shortly and the world will be my oyster.

I would confirm that the reciprocal arrangements exists between all Trusts except Norfolk so you wont need to purchase a when permit visiting UW once your membership is sorted; expect a "warm" welcome

In all fairness when you look closer it is a rather strange policy as membership rates (particularly concessionary rates) are not consistent across the country.

 

[rollingthunder]

Phil - i would happily pay the going rate to the WTNC it's just that, due to transport limitation, i am not able to visit the place. UW is the best place for miles, the range of habitats for its size is excellent. The volunteer management work is to be applauded and JTB's marshalling of anybody keen to participate is a benchmark, make sure he gets a slap..........on the back i hasten to add

I had toyed with Muddleton but the distance (ca28 miles one way) and the water management 'issues' have now forced my hand as i need some 'excitement' that my 'local' bits and bobs do not fulfill. UW is only about 18 miles away as the Marsh Tit flies and is barometer of what is moving thru at all seasons.

I am joining the Black Country lot as they do need all the support they can get and they are my 'local' organisation i'm sure you would approve........

'Warm' welcome aside i shall be armed with an old school report which clearly states 'challenging behavour' in bold RED

ATB Laurie:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

'Warm' welcome aside i shall be armed with an old school report which clearly states 'challenging behavour' in bold RED

Perhaps it should have said "inability to spell"? 8-P

 

[rollingthunder]

That one slipped through, ironic in that my first job upon leaving school was as a proof reader at a printing company in Lewisham, South East London. In my defense one of the irritating aspects of the Samsung Netbook that i use is the fact that if i try and type too fast the keyboard ca'nt keep up so i generally review everything before hitting the 'post' button. My second job was with the GPO and this involved learning to touch-type using the 'Sight and Sound' training method - something that has proved very useful over the ensuing years (decades).

Right Mark, time to reclaim your thread with a good migrant (not the Poles):C

Laurie:t:

 

[Kevin Clements]

To pick a number of comments in this thread:

Submission of records is the basis for all Biological Recording Schemes, requiring a Who (name of recorder), What (species/taxa recorded), Where (site name and grid reference) and When (date and ideally time) for each, plus further information for certain confusion or rare types.

The vast majority of records will be assessed by county recorders and (as appropriate) the local/national rarity committees who would have not seen the bird, etc concerned.

Most records submitted to BirdTrack are accessible to county bird recorders - I receive 35,000 each year for W Mids county alone! Others are submitted directly via record cards, letters, telephone calls, texts, face-to-face, e-mails, Word/Excel attachments, site annual reports, etc, which gives some sense of the size of the workload involved for just one small county. Whilst all this data takes time to assess, assimilate and write meaningful species accounts, it is only part of the issue. Records are not all received promptly e.g. I am still waiting for an annual report for a notable W Mids site for 2011, hence the delay in publishing West Midland Bird Club Annual Reports. The alternative, publish the report without the records, which to my mind somewhat defeats the object.

Without doubt many records are lost because no details are submitted at all, which can undervalue any assessment of a site, species, etc. I do trawl some websites, blogs, etc for bird records, but I certainly do not have the time to actively search for them all, so please do not presume that because records are on the Internet that they will be found by the respective county recorder, etc!

For records of description species submitted or found without supporting information, I contact the recorder if possible for further details, which sadly are still not always forthcoming. If I can find any supporting information e.g. recorded independently by different people on the same or different days or a photograph on a website, the record would be accepted, unless it involves a BBRC species which of course requires their consideration.

Furthermore, if there have been other substantiated records of a species locally e.g. Waxwing in an irruption year, they would tend to be entered as "reports of". On the subject of Marsh or Willow Tit, records without further details would also be recorded as reports of the stated species. Records involving distinctive species e.g. Red Kite where the observer says that they have seen them before, but provides no description, I tend to accept, but otherwise they would also be "reports of". Of course, this relies on trusting the observer and is very subjective, but I try to give the benefit of the doubt and strike a balance. The alternative is that none of these records are incorporated and therefore they all become lost.

If anyone can suggest alternative scientifically sound approaches, please let me know.

Cheers.


Kevin

 

[rollingthunder]

Hi Kevin -

Thanks very much for some background info on what, for a lot of us, is a pretty Grey area to say the least. It must be very frustrating to receive records to assess on the one hand and hear or know of others and not able to substantiate on the other.........

35k is some workload.

Thanks again.

Laurie:t:

 

[Baggieshep]

Back To Birding

Hiya sheepwashers and a warm welcome to all:t:. The last few days on this thread have been interesting to say the least, Ive found the birding politics more interesting than the birds of SUP that have been noted recently. House mart and swift are still showing in good numbers at dusk a grey wag as also been knocking about. Still a single tufted duckling which is sad considering that I was once told the wash produced the most ducklings of this species in the W Mids in its heyday. Sprawk, green woody and a juv jay were noted. Right lets get back to the politics, banter, biting wit and satire3. Cheers and happy birdingB .

 

[Phil Andrews]

Kevin,

Your efforts are much appreciated in pulling all this information together; its a shame you dont neccessarily get the full picture. From the workload described you can see why there isnt a long queue of candidates to be a County Recorder (I considered it for Worcs when Brian Stretch stood down but knew I couldnt devote the neccessary time required to do a decent job). Maybe one day when I retire ......

Keep up the good work
Phil :t:

 

[rollingthunder]

I seem to recall about 9 pairs scattered over the place in the 80's.

Laurie:t:

 

[yamyam]

Hi Geoff
Did you have any joy with the list of birds recorded at Sheepwash. I can't wait to see what blanks are on the list, only being 1.5 mile away from me I used to visit back in the good old days, I have seen most of the goodies: - Spoonbill, Night Heron, Pom Skua, Dusky Warbler & Grey Phal .
Good Birding YAMYAM

 

[geoffw1946]

Hi Geoff
Did you have any joy with the list of birds recorded at Sheepwash. I can't wait to see what blanks are on the list, only being 1.5 mile away from me I used to visit back in the good old days, I have seen most of the goodies: - Spoonbill, Night Heron, Pom Skua, Dusky Warbler & Grey Phal .
Good Birding YAMYAM

Hi Yam, I have sent you an email. It may take me some time to sort out a list.
Geoff