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Shorebird, Bavaria, Germany, 03/21 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Lanugoh
- Start date
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
I agree with Ruff. But despite extremly variable, this is indeed an aberantly coloured bird (leucism?) with white feathers, I think.
I have yet to see a Ruff (whatever sex and age) with an all white rump and lower back. Dark division of uppertail-coverts can be very thin, and I am not sure, this would be visible in this overexposed picture with white areas burned out.
But shape, leg colour and bill seems good for Ruff for me, too. Yes bill is short and slightly uptilted, normally longer and slightly downcurved. But within variation, I think?
Nice bird, thanks for sharing!
I have yet to see a Ruff (whatever sex and age) with an all white rump and lower back. Dark division of uppertail-coverts can be very thin, and I am not sure, this would be visible in this overexposed picture with white areas burned out.
But shape, leg colour and bill seems good for Ruff for me, too. Yes bill is short and slightly uptilted, normally longer and slightly downcurved. But within variation, I think?
Nice bird, thanks for sharing!
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Hello KC and Pat, does this mean you have seen a Ruff with an all white rump and lower back like in this bird here? I have seen many of them over the years, but I cant remember having seen one with this feature.
As said, I learned so much here. and hope I can do this here, too.
As said, I learned so much here. and hope I can do this here, too.
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
How do people know whether the white feathering on any given individual is due to partial leucism or just within normal white plumage in satellite Ruff as they are so variable?
- I have always assumed there are no ‘rules’ here. I have seen one Ruff many years ago that was very similar to the OP - it looked quite shocking at the time compared to the rest of the small flock as it flew briefly up from a scrape revealing a stonking white rump and tail but I didn’t automatically think ‘abberant’ but maybe it was - I do recall trying to explain to a novice birder, every one of those crazy looking birds were the same species! - So what is ‘normal’!?
This one on Netfugl labelled as ‘leucistic’
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=16533 (bottom of p6)
Almost completely white
www.shutterstock.com
macaulaylibrary.org
As regards rump and lower back on satellite males, I don’t recall specifically the extent of white on the backs and rump of other individual satellite males I have seen but that doesn’t mean they are not out there and within the scope of ‘normal’ - or could partial ‘leucism’ even be something all satellite Ruff have in common to varying degrees due to an inherent genetic flaw in the species (like the slightly genetically odd faeder birds) because I honestly can’t tell the difference between one kind of white feather or another when it comes to Ruff plumage 😏
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/320693751.
macaulaylibrary.org
search.macaulaylibrary.org
- I have always assumed there are no ‘rules’ here. I have seen one Ruff many years ago that was very similar to the OP - it looked quite shocking at the time compared to the rest of the small flock as it flew briefly up from a scrape revealing a stonking white rump and tail but I didn’t automatically think ‘abberant’ but maybe it was - I do recall trying to explain to a novice birder, every one of those crazy looking birds were the same species! - So what is ‘normal’!?
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=16533 (bottom of p6)
Almost completely white
Ruff Philocachus Pugnax Leucistic Editorial Stock Photo - Stock Image | Shutterstock Editorial
Find the editorial stock photo of Ruff Philocachus Pugnax Leucistic, and more photos in the Shutterstock collection of editorial photography. 1000s of new photos added daily.
www.shutterstock.com
ML205967891 - Ruff - Macaulay Library
Macaulay Library ML205967891; © Lars Petersson | My World of Bird Photography; Kalmar län [SE-08], Sweden
As regards rump and lower back on satellite males, I don’t recall specifically the extent of white on the backs and rump of other individual satellite males I have seen but that doesn’t mean they are not out there and within the scope of ‘normal’ - or could partial ‘leucism’ even be something all satellite Ruff have in common to varying degrees due to an inherent genetic flaw in the species (like the slightly genetically odd faeder birds) because I honestly can’t tell the difference between one kind of white feather or another when it comes to Ruff plumage 😏
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/320693751.
ML318980231 - Ruff - Macaulay Library
Macaulay Library ML318980231; © Simon Colenutt; Hampshire, England, United Kingdom
Ruff - Calidris pugnax - Media Search - Macaulay Library and eBird
Explore millions of photos, audio recordings, and videos of birds and other animals; powered by Macaulay Library and eBird. The Macaulay Library collects, archives, and distributes wildlife media for research, education, and conservation.
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BWP?
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
It was a rhetorical question - no fieldguide has every connotation of plumage and it does not answer the question Alex raises above
- Tringbirder and Lou’s comments on this thread are pertinent and fit in with my own experience of this species
BWP is far more than a field guide and might well give insight to whether such a degree of whiteness is aberrant or part of normal, or even extreme, variation.
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
Given the nature of the plumage variability- I believe it would require DNA testing of the individual concerned and examination of the structure of individual feathers to establish whether a particular feather is white due to genetic abnormality or a perfectly normal expression of the colour pattern genes - (since leucism and normal white genetic colouring both produce white feathers).
A bit elaborate - but of course potentially very interesting. I was thinking, though, simply of frequency of occurrence, which is the everyday basis for distinguishing 'aberration' from 'normality'.
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Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
The problem here is that this approach one needs a starting hypothesis of what is ‘normal‘ for this species. It is not just about frequency of occurrence. A rare light morph of Ruff could be just that. How would one tell the difference between leucistic feathers and normal white feathers just by looking at it through binoculars?
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Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Thank you Deb for your detailed answers. I must admit, that at first I thought, that your comment doesnt answer my question about Ruffs with white rump and lower back, but it really does. I am just a field birder and therefore asked with the "rare or out of variation?" background, like the helpful answers from Butty (which echoes my initial thinking). But you can see it from a scientific point of view, very helpful explanaition, thanks again!
More: all Ruffs with extensive white plumage still had a dark rump/lower back and tail as far as I can remember (yes, dark division on uppertail-coverts can be so thin, that they can appear all white). But as you saw one, its time for me to gain more experience with variation of Ruff. Thanks Deb, thats what I am interested in (with birding a hobby for me)!
Isnt that swarm-intelligence (or better experience) at its best?
Another example for this is the recent thread about the strange birdsound from Italy. I was puzzled, when I first heard it, thought a Trush (or maybe an imitating Great Tit) was the best fit, and wrote my comment. But after reading Lous answer, that its a Robin, I realized the true identity. I placed a like-button below his answer, but this is not enough. I have seen and heard many Robins over the years, and developed some deeper interest in this species during the last years, so I looked at them more intensly. And still time for me to learn about such a common species. Thank you Lou!
Back to the Ruff in this thread. As the similar question from Tib78 ("....can anyone provide a picture of a Ruff with extensive pure white plumage on the wing coverts, tertials and scapulars? For example the presence of white on the primary coverts looks very unusual and on top of that the distribution of white looks asymetrical, which is typical of leucism...") hasnt been answered yet (although there are some extremly experienced people around here) and only Deb have seen a Ruff with a white rump (and tail!) before, you have seen an extremly rare Ruff with extensive white plumage parts, Lanugo. Thanks for sharing!
More: all Ruffs with extensive white plumage still had a dark rump/lower back and tail as far as I can remember (yes, dark division on uppertail-coverts can be so thin, that they can appear all white). But as you saw one, its time for me to gain more experience with variation of Ruff. Thanks Deb, thats what I am interested in (with birding a hobby for me)!
Isnt that swarm-intelligence (or better experience) at its best?
Another example for this is the recent thread about the strange birdsound from Italy. I was puzzled, when I first heard it, thought a Trush (or maybe an imitating Great Tit) was the best fit, and wrote my comment. But after reading Lous answer, that its a Robin, I realized the true identity. I placed a like-button below his answer, but this is not enough. I have seen and heard many Robins over the years, and developed some deeper interest in this species during the last years, so I looked at them more intensly. And still time for me to learn about such a common species. Thank you Lou!
Back to the Ruff in this thread. As the similar question from Tib78 ("....can anyone provide a picture of a Ruff with extensive pure white plumage on the wing coverts, tertials and scapulars? For example the presence of white on the primary coverts looks very unusual and on top of that the distribution of white looks asymetrical, which is typical of leucism...") hasnt been answered yet (although there are some extremly experienced people around here) and only Deb have seen a Ruff with a white rump (and tail!) before, you have seen an extremly rare Ruff with extensive white plumage parts, Lanugo. Thanks for sharing!
lou salomon
the birdonist
Alexander, such white ruffs aren't at all rare. i can just mirror what deb said about a somewhat chaotic distribution of white in satellite males: they come around with just head and neck being white, then individuals with white on scapulars and back (not sure about the rump feature) up to individuals which look completely white and only remiges look blackish, when on ground. in eastern europe, where ruffs pass by the thousends you get these birds on a daily basis.
PYRTLE
Old Berkshire Boy
Personally, I cannot recall ever seeing quite an extensively white Ruff, though one or two coming quite close - these have shown blotches of coloured feathers which to me suggest a variation of plumage rather than an abnormality. These series of images do give the opportunity to see how far the white extends and therefore allowing detailed and timely study. We have identified the species as per OP. I cannot find Tib78's question in this thread, is it elsewhere?
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Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Thank you Lou and Pat for your input! Lou, I have seen quite a few very white Ruffs before. But they had at best head, underparts and upper-back uniform (or nearly so) white. But tail, rump and the lower back area adjacent to the rump was allways dark.
If you have seen such birds, its time for me to gain more experience. Thats the info, I wanted to have, and I am gratefull you could provide it. You know, thats one the reasons, why I am here.
If you have seen such birds, its time for me to gain more experience. Thats the info, I wanted to have, and I am gratefull you could provide it. You know, thats one the reasons, why I am here.
lou salomon
the birdonist
most of those white ruffs have been seen or photographed on ground, so it is a bit hard to tell if lower back/rump where white also. i will have an eye open for them 
foresttwitcher
Virtually unknown member
Pat, this refers to another thread on the subject linked to by Deb in post #10.
