Somali Ostrich (1 Viewer)

[martinf]

What was the rationale for splitting molybdophanes into Somali Ostrich, althogh obviously some phenotypic differences. Where would the extinct syriacus form sit?

 

[cuckooroller]

What was the rationale for splitting molybdophanes into Somali Ostrich, althogh obviously some phenotypic differences. Where would the extinct syriacus form sit?

The split of Somali Ostrich is primarily based on geographical, morphological, and genetic evidence.
Somali Ostrich Struthio molybdophanes
Reichenow 1883
Somalia; s Ethiopia; se Sudan; ne Kenya: s to Tsavo East NP
split from: Struthio camelus
insert after: Struthio camelus
S. Freitag & T.J. Robinson,
Phylogeographic Patterns in Mitochondrial DNA of the Ostrich (Struthio camelus)
The Auk 110, 3 (1993): 614-622


All the African races hybridize one with the other. I would imagine that syriacus would have done so as well. Sounds like one polytypic species to me.

 

[Xenospiza]

Somali Ostrich was reported to be quite divergent in mtDNA (which is "split friendly") from all other extant Ostriches, but sampling sizes (except australis) were small (78 australis, 10 massaicus, 8 molybdophanes, 1 camelus). If it would hold up to closer scrutiny (like using AFLP markers, which is more "lump friendly") should really be investigated.

You can read it here: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v110n03/index.php
I advise you to take the DjVu reader, because the pdf-files from the site tend to take forever...

 

[njlarsen]

I guess this shows that I have not read enough primary litterature lately, but are there really still people around using AFLP? Twenty years ago, they were hot because they could deliver some fast results without much prior knowledge of the species, but it was also widely agreed that they lived up to both parts of "quick and dirty"; especially because they underestimated the differential in that fragments that came out with the same size could originate in different parts of the genome.

Cheers
Niels

 

[Xenospiza]

Unless I'm really mistaken, they were used in the Green Warbler–Double-barred Leaf Warbler studies (which have something like 6 mtDNA clades, but a continuous change in the AFLP markers showed all populations were connected).

 

[jurek]

Syriacus was genetically and visually very similar to camelus except smaller size.

BTW, anybody knows about Asian Ostrich? There are some rumours (paintings on Chinese artifacts etc.) that Ostrich historically occured in C Asian steppes, too.

 

[cuckooroller]

Syriacus was genetically and visually very similar to camelus except smaller size.

BTW, anybody knows about Asian Ostrich? There are some rumours (paintings on Chinese artifacts etc.) that Ostrich historically occured in C Asian steppes, too.

Hi Jurek,
The fossil record is not clear on this. It is known that there were several Struthio sp. stretching from C China to SW Asia prehistorically. Supposedly the last of these Asian Struthio died out about the end of the last Ice Age. The artifactual testimony of the Middle Kingdom goes back about 8,000 years so it is possible that there was still something around living among the early Chinese.

 

[njlarsen]

Unless I'm really mistaken, they were used in the Green Warbler–Double-barred Leaf Warbler studies (which have something like 6 mtDNA clades, but a continuous change in the AFLP markers showed all populations were connected).

Because you cannot really know if the fragment present in two different lanes are actually the same or not, I would have problems trusting a result made with AFLP ... If you want a result from the non-mitochondrial genome, use ten reactions for microsattelites instead, even though the total experiment will become more expensive. Or, sequence some introns.

Just my two cents

Niels

 

[Richard Klim]

Miller et al 2010

Miller, Hallager, Monfort, Newby, Bishop, Tidmus, Black, Houston, Matthee & Fleischer 2010. Phylogeographic analysis of nuclear and mtDNA supports subspecies designations in the ostrich (Struthio camelus). Conserv Genet: in press.
www.springerlink.com/content/4550577543674743/fulltext.pdf
http://www.springerlink.com/content/4550577543674743/MediaObjects/10592_2010_149_MOESM1_ESM.docx

S molybdophanes is recognised as a species by IOC; but not by BLI (under review), Dickinson 2003, Cornell/Clements or ABC.

Also suggests possible species status for S (c) australis (incl massaicus).

Richard

 

[Mysticete]

I don't think there has been nearly as much work on the Chinese Megafaunal extinctions as there has been in Europe or North America, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Asian Ostrich survived into historic times

 

[mckaybailey]

Because you cannot really know if the fragment present in two different lanes are actually the same or not, I would have problems trusting a result made with AFLP ... If you want a result from the non-mitochondrial genome, use ten reactions for microsattelites instead, even though the total experiment will become more expensive. Or, sequence some introns.

Niels,

You are absolutely right. AFLPs can be extremely misleading. Also, they don't always suggest "lumps." The House Finch population in Hawaii (introduced there in the mid to late 1800s) has a AFLP profile that is distinct from the mainland. Microsatellites also have problems with homology. For species delimitation, I wouldn't trust anything less than sequence data.

Bailey

 

[Richard Klim]

Southern Ostrich

Miller, Hallager, Monfort, Newby, Bishop, Tidmus, Black, Houston, Matthee & Fleischer 2010.
Also suggests possible species status for S (c) australis (incl massaicus).

IOC has listed S australis Southern Ostrich as a proposed split.
www.worldbirdnames.org/updates-PS.html

Richard

 

[Mysticete]

So would Southern Ostrich include birds from Masai Mara?

 

[njlarsen]

The full text link in post 9 contains a rather nice map.

Niels

 

[Jacana]

So would Southern Ostrich include birds from Masai Mara?

http://www.springerlink.com/content/4550577543674743/fulltext.pdf says:

Our analyzes of mtDNA and nuclear microsatellites
support the designation of at least four described subspecies
(four of the five subspecies previously based on morphology,
range and other characteristics). The data also would
perhaps support species status for three taxa: S. c. molybdophanes,
S. c. camelus/syriacus, and S. c. australis/massaicus.

I guess that means, yes.

 

[Richard Klim]

Masai Mara

...and just to confirm Miller et al's map (and the ssp name), according to Zimmerman et al 1999 (Birds of Kenya & Northern Tanzania) massaicus occurs "from Serengeti Plains east to Ngorongoro Crater and Arusha Dist., north to Kilgoris, Nairobi and Tsavo West NP..." – so clearly including Masai Mara NR.

Richard

 

[Richard Klim]

Massaicus

Miller et al 2010 refers to camelus as the highly endangered red-necked subspecies, but massaicus is also red-necked.

Richard

 

[Richard Klim]

'Southern Ostrich'

IOC has listed S australis Southern Ostrich as a proposed split.

Deleted: www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/proposed-splits