Some people really should know better (1 Viewer)

[Jane Turner]

and all the sillier, because from the prom you can get photos like these (digibinned)

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5761&d=1077365330
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5762&d=1077365352

Notice they are mostly asleep!

 

[devon.birder]

Until a few days ago there was a warning on the Rutland Water web site to report to the Centre any photographers that were seen disturbing the Long-eared Owl roosting site. Apparently they had been trying to get closer than the footpath although having been there last week I can only assume they must have been crawling though the hedge. This warning has now been withdrawn after this behaviour had ceased.
I was at Salthouse beach, Norfolk last Tuesday and there were two photpgraphers with huge lenses lying down at the edge of a pool about 50 yards west of the car park. Turnstones were feeding a matter of a few feet away from them. They had either got there in the dark or they must initially have disturbed the birds when they arrived. They were still lying there 30 minutes later. How many photos of Turnstones do you need?. The birds seemed not to mind their presence though and it was the Snow Buntings that were occasionally flushed by visiting Birders like me.
There is also a warning at Sculthorpe Reserve to the effect that Photographers were not to monopolise the hides so that other visitors could not get in.
An ongoing problem I fear. Roger

 

[Jane Turner]

There is still quite a difference between lying flat to the ground and letting birds approach you compared to approaching a large but rapidly diminishing roosting flock simultaneously from three directions, or for that matter booting a (presumably starving) Skylark that was only 2ft away, because you don't like the background its against.

 

[Runaround]

I know a local foursome of birders who have been banned from two different preserves for bad behavior. In one preserve they repeatedly ignored signs barring off trail hiking and picked wildflowers. In another they were caught throwing stones at birds trying to get them to flush for better views. A local bird club has banned them from field trips for not following rules and being a general nuisance.

The sad thing is they just don't care. They feel their actions are justified and that it's the rest of the birding community that is wrong to exclude or look down upon them.

 

[choughed2bits]

Well done for outing them JT. I totally agree with your affirmative action. It is perhaps the only way they will learn that their behaviour is unacceptable to other birders (and the public at large) but most importantly the birds.

Next time a good Glesca kiss would sort them out.

Maybe even run out and steal their kit?

****s!

k

 

[Pastynator]

There are proper ways ways of taking photos of waders on beaches. If you lay down as the tide is coming in, the birds will often approach you on their own terms and not be in the least bit scared. I've even known of photographers who have had turnstones sit on their backs and dunlin will quite often approach within 6 feet of you at their own free will, fully knowing what you are.
Just as important as getting into place to take the photos without disturbing the birds/wildlife is moving away afterwards without disturbing them as well.

What you DON'T do as a photographer is what the people in the photos in this thread are doing.... stomp up to them standing up tall. The birds get stressed, they don't behave naturally and that standing up view point makes for not so good photos as well.
All in all they've just shown themselves up to being not very good photographers as well as harrassing birds.

 

[Pastynator]

I just thought i'd add... there's often comments in threads like these from non-photographers about the size of camera lenses with questions like "why do they need to get so close?" often asked. Well the sad fact (for me) is that they don't actually magnify as much as a smaller telescope. It's a wholly different optical system based on taking in more light and sharpness rather than just mainly magnification.

To get a decent photo of a single bird you actually have to be quite close and quite often within it's circle of fear. That's one of the things that really dissapointed me when i started learning photography.

 

[Farnboro John]

I was at Salthouse beach, Norfolk last Tuesday and there were two photpgraphers with huge lenses lying down at the edge of a pool about 50 yards west of the car park. Turnstones were feeding a matter of a few feet away from them. They had either got there in the dark or they must initially have disturbed the birds when they arrived. They were still lying there 30 minutes later. How many photos of Turnstones do you need?. The birds seemed not to mind their presence though and it was the Snow Buntings that were occasionally flushed by visiting Birders like me.
There is also a warning at Sculthorpe Reserve to the effect that Photographers were not to monopolise the hides so that other visitors could not get in.
An ongoing problem I fear. Roger

A couple of years ago I went to Salthouse beach car park to photograph Snow Buntings and Lapland Buntings which were spending most (but not all) of their time on seed put out for them.

When the flock flew to the far end of the car park I scooted into the seed area and lay down with my camera. After a while the birders at the far end ot the car park went incautiously close to the buntings, which flushed right back to me. I started photographing them and continued until they flew off again some twenty minutes later.

They were coming to within the minimum focus distance of my lens and you would think I could get all the pix I wanted, but in fact when you are lying down your movement is quite restricted, especially if you are anxious about flushing the birds. You are therefore required to wait for the birds to move into the right position, and you may be watching the wrong bird at the wrong moment and miss more shots than you get. Try it sometime, its an education (and of course a rare and stunning privilege).

I could see a few Turnstones in front of me but - again because I was lying down - I was completely unaware that there were also numbers behind and not quite upon me! Once the buntings flew off I moved off as carefully as I possibly could but inevitably a few of the birds behind me fluttered a little way off. Fortunately the birders present who were watching the whole performance were amused rather than annoyed. Lucky me, and lucky them for not having lost their sense of humour over the years.

I am of course wholly against behaviour such as Jane described. As others have said, it doesn't even help their photography.

I like Sculthorpe but the biggest problem in the hides seems to be people who won't walk softly, talk softly, or open and close doors and shutters softly.

BTW it has taken me nearly 30 years to work up to a 500 mm "white lens", and it took my late father's estate to get it for me, so where anyone gets the idea its cheap is well beyond me.

John

 

[username]

Tiresome isn't it..?
Same old stories and same old problems that increase each year with burgeoning numbers of folk who really haven't got a clue....photographers and birders with no idea of fieldcraft...[and no real solutions in sight i fear...except unsavory extreme one's].....ie...'culling'...

ps..folks i've seen with 'camo' clothing are often the worst...['some' seem to think this renders them invisible like they were flippin sci-fi alien 'predators'....

 

[chris butterworth]

Seems like you've rattled a few cages her, Jane ( and good on you ). The area around Hoylake / West Kirby does seem to attract those who either like to walk along the tideline at high tide with their dogs or try to use their equipment as wader suppositries ( cameras, bins, scopes - before anyone thinks I meant anything else!!) . After 20 odd years of wardening the roost at West Kirby we still get "birders"/"photographers" trying to clamber all over the birds. It's bad enough when Joe Public does it unknowingly, but that is understandable. I seem to remember, a couple of years ago at Ewlowe, some photographers trying to get shots of what the Waxwings were digesting, at least thats what I thought they were doing! I may have started to build up a bit of a head of steam here but short of laying land mines around the roost sites divvies are going to keep on doing this, I'm afraid.
Chris

 

[Jane Turner]

The jury is still out on whether these guys are genuine "haven't got a clue-ers" or unrepentant serial offenders. The former is sort of excusable, if the latter then I know at least two people that will not let it lie!

 

[Vectis Birder]

BTW it has taken me nearly 30 years to work up to a 500 mm "white lens", and it took my late father's estate to get it for me, so where anyone gets the idea its cheap is well beyond me.John

Quite, John. At five grand upwards (£5398.99 on Warehouse Express) they're not my idea of cheap either!

Last year a Cattle Egret turned up near here. Most people enjoyed the bird which stuck around for a couple of weeks and we all got good views from the road...except for a couple of individuals who thought that this wasn't good enough and climbed over the gate and trespassed though private gardens to get a closer look. A friend who witnessed this said that this caused quite a lot of trouble with arguments between the residents and the trespassers. Worse, it scared the bird. Why are there always some people who are not satisfied? :C

 

[username]

'Cages' get very rattled over this subject...[as per usual]...and can lead to extreme solutions....

ps...[check out 'The Drunkbirders' blog under 'Bill Baileys Fieldcraft' for some potential solutions to flushers]...but please don't look if you are adverse to very bad and extreme language...as it will most definitely offend]...!

 

[Graham Goddard]

I joined this forum this afternoon and this is the first thread I've read.

I'm a birder, and a photographer, and contribute regulary to other (mainly photography based) forum.

Whilst reading through this entire thread, I did take mild offence at some of the comments being made and started to formulate various replies in my head, but then, on reflection, that would just have been a knee jerk reaction and not constructive to the debate.

My humble opinion is that if birders and togs had just a little more consideration and understanding, then that would certainly help. A lot of those points, from both sides, are covered here, and I do believe that the sort of behaviour shown in the pictures is thankfully, rare. All togs I know are passionate about the wildlife they photograph - the well being of the subject is paramount.

I'm sure we've all been in a hide where cameras were firing off - equally, I'm sure we've all been there when a noisy group enters a hide asks 'What have you seen', then clatters off again.

If anyone reading this, whether birder, tog, or both, takes away just a little bit from this thread and uses it in the consideration of others, then Jane will have started a very useful thread indeed.

 

[devon.birder]

There is still quite a difference between lying flat to the ground and letting birds approach you compared to approaching a large but rapidly diminishing roosting flock simultaneously from three directions, or for that matter booting a (presumably starving) Skylark that was only 2ft away, because you don't like the background its against.

I quite agree Jane but I didn't mention the Skylark in my post. The behaviour you witnessed was unforgivable. I mentioned the Salthouse photographers only as a recent example of observed behaviour. Two middle aged men lying flat down on rock hard ground in freezing temperatures caused quite a few comments from people using the car park for reasons other than birding. They must have been there in that position for at least an hour as I went to pick up my wife before returning to Salthouse and they were still there. Perhaps I should have checked they hadn't frozen to death. Roger

 

[Jane Turner]

I joined this forum this afternoon and this is the first thread I've read.

I'm a birder, and a photographer, and contribute regulary to other (mainly photography based) forum.

Welcome to BF. Don't suppose you recognise them do you?

 

[Monahawk]

I've been following this thread with interest. Some postings are more relevant than others. It seems Jane you have snooped upon an intriguing case that needs solving. You're not by any chance a fan of Miss Marple?

 

[Graham Goddard]

I quite agree Jane but I didn't mention the Skylark in my post. The behaviour you witnessed was unforgivable. I mentioned the Salthouse photographers only as a recent example of observed behaviour. Two middle aged men lying flat down on rock hard ground in freezing temperatures caused quite a few comments from people using the car park for reasons other than birding. They must have been there in that position for at least an hour as I went to pick up my wife before returning to Salthouse and they were still there. Perhaps I should have checked they hadn't frozen to death. Roger

I know this site very well indeed, and have been that bloke lying there for hours at a time.

On a calm day, you can get wonderful reflection pool images of all of the various birds that frequent the pools during the day - laying there getting cold, waiting for the birds and the right light is part of what it takes to get that perfect image.

To have Snow Bunting or Turnstone almost walk over me is something I'll never get tired of - it can be pretty frustrating though to be in position for hours only to have someone walk up, spook everything, ask if you're photographing anything special, then wander off...........thus, the wait begins again..

 

[Graham Goddard]

Welcome to BF. Don't suppose you recognise them do you?

Thanks and I'm afraid I don't Jane.

FYI, you'll find similar debates to this one about Donna Nook, the seal colony on Lincolnshire. Abandonded pups etc.,....not something anyone would which to be associated with I'm sure.

 

[Jane Turner]

There are a couple of dead Oystercatchers on the tideline today.