• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

some warbler from south Poland (1 Viewer)

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
This bird caught my attention because of the voice (which I attach). Slender, long body, whitish, little buff underparts, rather grayish mantle, whitish supercilium, pale beak ?
 

Attachments

  • Recording_192.1.mp3
    286.6 KB · Views: 121
  • IMG_4504.JPG
    IMG_4504.JPG
    222.8 KB · Views: 110
  • IMG_4506.JPG
    IMG_4506.JPG
    346.2 KB · Views: 141
  • IMG_4525.JPG
    IMG_4525.JPG
    291.1 KB · Views: 123
  • IMG_4534.JPG
    IMG_4534.JPG
    499.2 KB · Views: 129

KenM

Well-known member
Looks not dissimilar to Arctic Warbler which might be a candidate, as the initial notes sound like it, without the normally accompanying trill?

Cheers
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
Thanks Ken, also I can't think of anything else, I record the sound with an ordinary smartphone recorder, maybe it doesn't catch everything?
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
I add some more photos, maybe they will be helpful.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4510.JPG
    IMG_4510.JPG
    306.2 KB · Views: 76
  • IMG_4511.JPG
    IMG_4511.JPG
    425.6 KB · Views: 50
  • IMG_4536.JPG
    IMG_4536.JPG
    554 KB · Views: 62
  • IMG_4527.JPG
    IMG_4527.JPG
    440.4 KB · Views: 61
  • IMG_4531.JPG
    IMG_4531.JPG
    444.6 KB · Views: 50

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
Ken, I don't know exactly, but it would be one of the first. Maybe the species is slightly overlooked.
Legs were pale. In the pictures - you can see some paler parts on the coverts, but I can’t see any bar. However, the part arctic warblers does not have a visible bar. Also there are some other doubts. On a few pictures, the primary projection looks short - it's not good for arctic. But I don’t know if it is decisive ...
Janie - of course I don't know if the bird is still there :) - near Czarny Dunajec.
 

HH75

Well-known member
Hi all,
I am afraid that I must state straight up, as a starting point, that I really don't think that this is an Arctic Warbler, much as it would be great if it were. For a start, dealing solely with the call, it is an interesting sound, there's no denying that, and it could be said to bear a (very) superficial resemblance to the common call of nominate Arctic Warbler. However, Arctic Warbler calls are far more strident and penetrating, akin to the common flight call of a (White-throated) Dipper, and really rather different to the calls heard in the recording here. See https://www.xeno-canto.org/485166 for a nice example of typical Arctic Warbler calls.
In addition, the short primary projection is a real black mark against Arctic Warbler, and I can't see how one can reconcile this with that species. I freely admit that the head pattern seems well-defined, and could match an Arctic Warbler, or seem to in any case, and that the pale tips to the greater coverts could well be worn away by mid June, but, for me, I suspect that this, in spite of the rather well-defined head pattern and less obvious eye crescents than usual, may well be a juvenile Common Chiffchaff. Here in Ireland, where Common Chiffchaff and Willow Warbler are both very common familiar species, I am very used to being faced by silent birds of either species, and, most of the time, just a glance at the facial pattern is enough for a confident identification to be made. However, I suspect I am not alone in finding at least the occasional fresh juvenile bird, with their unusual plumages, variable bare parts colouration and difficult calls, far trickier than one might expect based on adults in spring/summer and birds on passage in autumn. Some Common Chiffchaffs have surprisingly pale bills and even legs, and I don't mind admitting that I tend to feel better about some juveniles when a parent comes to feed them!
Ignore the adult calls on this recording, and imagine the begging juveniles a little louder. https://www.xeno-canto.org/492403. Of course, I could be wrong, but I feel that I should invoke Occam's razor...
Regards,
Harry
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
Hi, thank you very much for the extensive explanations. I am not optimistic about arctic, I wrote about my doubts. However, I am far from chiff chaff. Maybe the voice is not very piercing, but remember that I recorded with weak equipment. In the field the voice was quite sharp. Now I will send a slightly strengthened recording. However, I agree - it still doesn't sound exactly like arctic. What's more - the voice is two-syllable, which I noticed only now. I am sending the spectrogram, it is completly different from the linked chiff caff recording. I also showed 2 syllables.
 

Attachments

  • Recording_192.2.mp3
    109.1 KB · Views: 31
  • Przechwytywanie w trybie pełnoekranowym 14.06.2020 135930.bmp.jpg
    Przechwytywanie w trybie pełnoekranowym 14.06.2020 135930.bmp.jpg
    68.8 KB · Views: 30
Last edited:

RafaelMatias

Unknown member
Portugal
Michał Jaro;4016263 said:
Hi, thank you very much for the extensive explanations. I am not optimistic about arctic, I wrote about my doubts. However, I am far from chiff chaff. Maybe the voice is not very piercing, but remember that I recorded with weak equipment. In the field the voice was quite sharp. Now I will send a slightly strengthened recording. However, I agree - it still doesn't sound exactly like arctic. What's more - the voice is two-syllable, which I noticed only now. I am sending the spectrogram, it is completly different from the linked chiff caff recording. I also showed 2 syllables.

IMO the call is monosyllabic. The alleged second part of the call (the shorter bit, to the right, within the red oval area) belongs to something else calling rhythmically on the background, and indeed overlaps with the sharper "first part of the call" in places (e.g., right on the 7 seconds mark), making it impossible being the same bird uttering both sounds.
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
Yes indeed, thanks Rafael. So still the most similar voice is arctic ... I would add that the bird was flying between two trees and the recording definitely comes to the individual in the pictures.
 

lou salomon

the birdonist
it has already been said, especially by harry, but such a short primary projection excludes arctic warbler. and the call isn't convincing either for me.
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
First, I'm sorry for tormenting the subject :)
In the case of primary projection - I noticed the details.
I send two enlarged photos. On one you can see 'stairs' on the primaries (is it possible distruction of the feathers? or is it a normal look?). On the other - the right wing will drop behind the branch, showing a fairly large projection?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_4506.1.JPG
    IMG_4506.1.JPG
    92.4 KB · Views: 58
  • IMG_4527.2.JPG
    IMG_4527.2.JPG
    38.1 KB · Views: 50

lou salomon

the birdonist
pic 1 in post 1 is the best pic to see primary tips and tertial tips (without being able to measure tertial length). but primaries definitely look short.
 

KenM

Well-known member
It’s interesting how the thread has developed into what it isn’t, as opposed to what it is (If possible from these ambiguous images). I believe the notion of Chiff Chaff is somewhat “shortening” a Phyllosc. that appears attenuated somewhat, not just on the images provided but by Michael’s own observations in the field?

Indeed if the Phyllosc. is as long as it appears in the images, then the supposed position of the pp relative to the overall tail length becomes less than credible for any Phyllosc. that I’m aware of.

Surely the pp must be longer than what might appear in these less than perfect images?

Cheers
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
I thought I would write nothing more, but Ken provoked me to make some remarks.
The first: voice - which caused my interest. What can we read about it - the arctic's call is quite unlike other phylloscopus. but this one for sure is similar. So let's assume I was wrong - another bird in the area called - which one? There were, pipits (tree, meadow), yellowhamer, whitethroat, citrine wagtail. None match ?.
Further, the morphological features - there are some that match the arctic, like body shape, long neck, supercilium that doesn't pass on the forehead, long, bright bill. I have one more word in my head - hybrid? is possible ?
 

RafaelMatias

Unknown member
Portugal
Michał Jaro;4017574 said:
I thought I would write nothing more, but Ken provoked me to make some remarks.
The first: voice - which caused my interest. What can we read about it - the arctic's call is quite unlike other phylloscopus. but this one for sure is similar. So let's assume I was wrong - another bird in the area called - which one? There were, pipits (tree, meadow), yellowhamer, whitethroat, citrine wagtail. None match ?.
Further, the morphological features - there are some that match the arctic, like body shape, long neck, supercilium that doesn't pass on the forehead, long, bright bill. I have one more word in my head - hybrid? is possible ?

I think Harry's last sentence in post #9 applies here ;)
 

Michał Jaro

Well-known member
When I find any similar voice of some common bird, I will certainly agree with it :). Thanks Rafael, thanks to everyone who gave their opinions.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top