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Sorry , not a bird question (1 Viewer)

Sorry Martin, but I cannot find a full version, not in full colour, of Alexandre Bourjot Saint-Hilaire's (supplementary) Book (Vol.3) Histoire naturelle des perroquets : pour faire suite aux deux volumes de Levaillant, contenant les espèces laissées inédites par cet auteur ou récemment découvertes ... ; les figures lithographiées et coloriées avec soin par M. Werner [= Jacques Christophe Werner (1798-1856], ... (according to BnF's info about the Copy with those far too contrasty, all black-and-white, scans in Gallica).

However, two examples (or, at least one) of Werner's artwork (from the Book above), in high resolution (zoomable) is supplied by Christie's (Auction House) here (see the printed 'signature' in the left corner of the "KACATOËS A HUPPE BLANCHE").

And, as you've been looking for Werner, see here, a Letter/Brief (for sale) signed by "Werner" himself [again explained as: "Werner, Jacques Christophe, Illustator und Tiermaler (1798-1856)"]. If of interest?

Either way, enjoy!

/B
 
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From the marriage record of his partents here 94/111 and the birth record I would say his name was written at that time as Verner (and only later as Werner). But it is for sure him.
 
Taphrospilus said:
From the marriage record of his partents here 94/111 and the birth record I would say his name was written at that time as Verner (and only later as Werner). But it is for sure him.
Click to expand...

Yes, I had noticed that as well. But the name is quite clearly spelled Werner in the signatures on both records, so it's really only the clerk who wrote the records who spelled it with a V. (The officers who handled the marriage and birth declaration were different but I'm quite convinced that the handwriting in both records is the same.)

(W is the last letter to have entered the French alphabet: it may not be too surprising to find some inconsistencies in its use in early writings.)
 
I would trust/use Werner, just the way he wrote his surname himself:

Werner.jpg
But without the ornamental curlicues (of course) ... 🙄

Clearly an arty, arty-farty, arty-crafty, guy! An Artist of his time.
 
In context with Werner I came accross a letter signed by Fred. Cuvier from 19. Juin 1855. It can't be him here the famous Jean-Léopold-Nicolas-Frédéric, Baron de, called Georges Cuvier. What is the full name and life dates of this Cuvier?
 

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If we read Projet de loi (about his daughter Marie Caroline Werner b. 6. November 1839 he was Chevalier de l'Orde).

His second wife here here p. 25/31 seems to be burried 1884 (but have died in 1883 enty 1690). For me it looks like she did not die in Paris. any idea where she died?
 
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Taphrospilus said:
If we read Projet de loi (about his daughter Marie Caroline Werner b. 6. November 1839 he was Chevalier de l'Orde).
Click to expand...

There is a quite confusing file in Léonore under the name "Jacques Christophe Wernert": Recherche - Base de données Léonore
This file is about the nomination as a Chevalier de l'Ordre de la Légion d'Honneur, initially, of one "M. Vernet", Maréchal des logis au régiment des hussards d'Angoulême. But it then appeared that there was no such person, and the name was corrected to Jacques Wernert, born in Colmar on 25 Feb 1785 (legitimate son of Martin Wernert and Marie Ursule Leichert), who died, also in Colmar, on 2 Feb 1857. In some of the Léonore documents, however, "Jacques" becomes "Jacques Christophe" (while no second given name is present in the copy of his baptism record, in the Léonore file, or in his death record, here, 14/423), and "Wernert" becomes "Werner". The signature that appears on some of the documents in the file is not that of "our" Jacques Christophe Werner.
Could the fact that Marie Caroline Werner was treated as the daughter of a Chevalier in 1849 have resulted from this apparent confusion ?


Taphrospilus said:
His second wife here here p. 25/31 seems to be burried 1884 (but have died in 1883 enty 1690). For me it looks like she did not die in Paris. any idea where she died?
Click to expand...

I assume that her corpse was initially buried temporarily elsewhere, and moved in 1884.
She had died in Paris, 5e Arr., on 22 Mar 1879: here (cote V4E 3071), 10/31.
 
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But there must be a reason why Marie Caroline Ma(g)deleine Werner here p. 5/51 (married in 1859 Jean Marie Chappelet here p. 50/51) got money for her education at the Maison impérial d'Écouen (Maison d’education de la legion d’honneur) (see attached letter) after the death of her father (if not chevalier de la legion d'honneur). I am still not able to identify where and when she died. But it seems possible 1907 in Annecy in the Departement Haute-Savoie.
 

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Death record (Cote 4 E 3456) of her here p. 226/388 8. May 1907 in Lathuile.

The mothers name is Grognot (and not Gragnot). Marriage here p. 31/51 25. April 1829 and died here p. 33/51 on 19. April 1844
 
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l_raty said:
There is a quite confusing file in Léonore under the name "Jacques Christophe Wernert": Recherche - Base de données Léonore
This file is about the nomination as a Chevalier de l'Ordre de la Légion d'Honneur, initially, of one "M. Vernet", Maréchal des logis au régiment des hussards d'Angoulême. But it then appeared that there was no such person, and the name was corrected to Jacques Wernert, born in Colmar on 25 Feb 1785 (legitimate son of Martin Wernert and Marie Ursule Leichert), who died, also in Colmar, on 2 Feb 1857. In some of the Léonore documents, however, "Jacques" becomes "Jacques Christophe" (while no second given name is present in the copy of his baptism record, in the Léonore file, or in his death record, here, 14/423), and "Wernert" becomes "Werner". The signature that appears on some of the documents in the file is not that of "our" Jacques Christophe Werner.
Could the fact that Marie Caroline Werner was treated as the daughter of a Chevalier in 1849 have resulted from this apparent confusion ?
Click to expand...
sér.2:t.8 (1856) - Revue et magasin de zoologie pure et appliquée - Biodiversity Heritage Library
...Werner, chevalier de la Légion d'honneur, peintre au Muséum d'histoire naturelle, ln-fol.
Click to expand...
 
Intrigued by the (somewhat stray) post here, asking for a digitized copy of the very Rare (Children's) Book Les oiseaux et les fleurs (Album dédié aux jeunes demoiselles, renfermant un choix des plus jolis oiseaux et des plus belles fleurs. orné de 24 lithographies coloriées), printed by Langlumé (in "Vers [about/around] 1850", according to AbeBooks), which seems to be found nowhere (that is; not in a digital copy, at least not as far as I can tell), I can only add that Werner indeed seems to have worked with/for Langlumé.

In any case I think he did. See this text, from 1957–58 (all in French, and as such beyond my understanding). Or here.
Though, I cannot tell if he was involved with that particular book. He might have been, or not (most likely the latter).

Hopefully the French text, by René Ronsil, can be of some use/help?

Björn

PS. Werner is mentioned 18 times in Ronsil's text.
 
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Taphrospilus said:
My question came from there as the plates/planches I have seen are not looking like Werner plates usually do.
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It doubt that Ronsil there intended to tell us that this book was illustrated by Werner. In the text, he discusses various publications with plates by Werner, one of which was the Atlas des oiseaux d'Europe, for which he says the lithography was made by Langlumé and two others. About Langlumé, he then says in a footnote that he published a delightful small in-8° titled Les oiseaux et les fleurs in 1840. If the plates in this work had really been by Werner too, one would have expected the work to be discussed in the main text, like other works illustrated by Werner. Not in a footnote.

(Incidentally, this footnote was probably a fail, because the lithographer of Werner's 1826 Atlas would have been Pierre Langlumé (1790-1830), while the Langlumé of Les oiseaux et les fleurs, 10 years after Pierre Langlumé's death, would then have been his son Antoine Eugène Léopold Langlumé, who was but 9 years old in 1826.) [Not correct, sorry -- see below.]
 
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Joseph Delaporte de Langlumé allegedly worked together with/for "J. C. Werner", with Atlas oiseaux Europe, at least according to DSI (Database of Scientific Illustrators 1450–1950, here).

Werner is not listed among the collaborators of Pierre Langlumé (here).

Well, that's it on my part, that's all I can find on Werner.

I'm done (in this particular Topic). See you all elsewhere.

/B
 
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There is some confusing information around, indeed... E.g. here the Atlas is associated to Pierre, but here it is associated to Joseph (which may well be correct; the plates are signed "Lith. de Langlumé.", which does not help solving the issue).
And the title page of Les oiseaux et les fleurs says "J. Langlumé, libraire.", so I have to retract the second paragraph of what I wrote in #36 above.
 
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