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Sparrowhawks responsible for House Sparrow decline says scientist (1 Viewer)

Adam W

Well-known member
Questions were rightly raised as the findings of this study appeared to both be at odds with suggested causes of decline found in other studies and that the study may not have taken into consideration other factors that could be of importance, and have been suggested of importance in other studies.


Well yes nobody thinks Sparrowhwaks are cute an fluffy but i was refering to the well known fact that we as a nation are more than a bit soft when it comes to animals compared to other countries.

As you say the findings were at odds with the previous suggested causes but is the real reason people objected the fact that they really didnt believe the reports findings or they didnt want to believe them? I think at best it was a bit of both.
As for the reliability and methods of the study there's no way that would have been questioned the way it has been if the findings had just agreed with what most people wanted to hear reguardless of wether it was right or wrong.
 

Jos Stratford

Beast from the East
... is the real reason people objected the fact that they really didnt believe the reports findings or they didnt want to believe them?

I cannot comment on other people's reasons for questioning the report. However, there is no reason to not want to believe them - if the findings are genuine, so be it. Sparrowhawk is a natural predator, recovering from years of persecution, so if a new equilibrium is being reached between predator and prey, then also so be it.

The only possible reason to be dismayed by the findings, especially if they do not reflect the reality, is that it gives a handy plank for groups who understand nothing about the natural world, i.e. Songbird Survival, to go on with their campaign to renew the persecution of Sparrowhawks and other birds with a hooked beak.
 

Adam W

Well-known member
However, there is no reason to not want to believe them - if the findings are genuine, so be it.

Thats exactly my point and we seem to agree on that but i dont think that is what several people at the start of this thread did,the immediate reaction on this thread was to question the findings I believe simply because they werent the findings many people wanted so they tried to find faults.If the report does turn out to be wrong then as you say so be it, I really dont mind either way.
 

gropperwinch

Well-known member
I'll say my reason for questioning it wasn't because I think Sparrowhakws are cute and fluffy, it just seems bizarre and stupid a predator would overhunt its prey. However, considering how tame sparrows have become, and the fact they were overpopulated, it seems plausible(mind you there are other theories, sadly more glum ones, which are just as possible IMHO), and I would prefer this to a serious problem which might actually take them to below a healthy population.
 

nickderry

C'est pas ma faute, je suis anglais.
The reason the results are being questioned is because it is good practice to do so. Any scientific research worth being looked at must be able to stand up on its own in the face of criticism and questioning.

I share the concerns of many that what seems to me a rather tenuous link between predator and prey can now be misquoted as fact (rather than an idea in need of more work) by the national rags and used against sparrowhawks.

The idea that sparrowhawks are relatively new to the suburban/urban environment is an area that needs more work done I think. It could be argued that the environment itself is relatively new. Also not wanting to open up that other can of worms, but I'd imagine that cats have been taking significant numbers of sparrows in gardens, as cats wouldn't have been in decline I'd be interested to see the study taking into account all predators rather than singling out one of the many species to prey on sparrows in the suburban setting.
 

Mike Price

Well-known member
Again I can only answer for myself but my reasons where based on the size of the population of sparrows and their ability to reproduce (when food and nesting are not an issue) at such a rapid rate.

I don't believe that with a population of 3ish million pairs of sparrows in the UK that the Sparrowhawk alone could be responsible for the large decreases noted.

I believe that predator populations grow with more avialable food and suitable habitat, I can't believe that the Sparrowhawk has more suitable habitat now than when most of the housing estates and roads where open country and woods/forest areas, it has been said before that when the BOP numbers were artificially suppressed then populations could have exploded and this is a return to the natural order.

Had it been a localised view or a species with far fewer numbers I could be given to believe it possible, for example

Locally we get Wheatears at this time of year, a reasonable number but not a massive influx, the Sparrowhawk changes its hunting from the woodland to the edges of the moorland when the birds arrive, now if you were to tell me that this has a massive impact on the Wheatear in this area I would believe you 100% infact I could probably go out over a few days/weeks and actually count the impact they have.

I also took offence over the way it was reported as a substantiated fact, I found it completely irresponsible of the journalist given the problems this country faces with BOP persecution, especially indicating the BTO had been involved in the production of the report, but not actually adding that the paper had been rejected by the BTO RSPB and Sparrow expert that were employed to judge the competition it had been entered into.
 

CAU

Well-known member
Meanwhile in Europe, Eurasian Sparrowhawks have rebounded much more slowly in the East, where organochlorines continued to be used well after their withdrawal in the west, and Sparrows remain common in most Eastern European cities.

Of the Eastern European countries, the estimates by BirdLife International show opposite trends for Sparrowhawk and House Sparrow only in Estonia and Croatia:
http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/BirdsInEuropeII/BiE2004Sp8367.pdf
http://www.birdlife.org/datazone/species/BirdsInEuropeII/BiE2004Sp3455.pdf

For example in Ukraine, the Checz Republic, Slovakia, Turkey and the Nordic countries House Sparrow is declining rapidly, whereas the Sparrowhawk population is estimated to be stable (or even declining in Turkey).

Finnish winter bird counts show a marked decrease of House Sparrow in both urban and rural environments:
http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/seurannat/talvilintulaskennat/artikkelit/varpunen-kaavio.gif
Pohjois-Suomi = Northern Finland
Etelä- ja Keski-Suomi = Southern and Central Finland
Etelärannikko = the south coast
yksilöä/10 km = individuals/10 km
blue dots = urban environment
red dots = rural environment

The same bird counts show a very stable Sparrowhawk population:
http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/seurannat/talvilintulaskennat/artikkelit/33lajia/06.gif
The different graphs depict different regions of the country, and here syys=early winter, talvi= mid-winter, kevät=late winter.
 

Moosebird

Active member
Kentbloke – Your Catford anecdote is germane to the discussion. Sparrowhawk populations were indeed at a historical high in the post-war period because of the decline of ‘keepering during the war itself. There were breeding attempts on Hampstead Heath and Holland Park, but they didn’t get as far as establishing themselves in the central London parks as happened in the early 1990s. You also ask why other species are not declining – but they are! Not Blue Tit, but Starling yes, along with a whole range of other species. Also, Bkrownd does have a point: House Sparrows are still one of the commonest species in Britain. They haven’t been ‘wiped out’, simply reduced to a level of abundance more in line with that of many other species.

Dantheman – Yes, I agree that taking ‘all’ factors into account would be impractical, but the more important point is that many potentially influential variables simply cannot be quantified. The argument that a conclusion is invalid because it fails to account for unmeasurable variable ‘x’ is tantamount to saying that a problem cannot be addressed scientifically.

Himalaya – It is true that there have always been cats in urban areas, and Kestrels have been urban breeders in Britain since at least the 1960s, but the threat from Sparrowhawks is of a different order, since they are specialist bird predators. Kestrels will take Sparrows if they can, but they are much less adept than Sparrowhawks because they are basically mousers.

Jos Stratford – You would be right to be sceptical if all we had done was demonstrate a broad correlation between prey and predator, but we did much more than this. One one level our paper is an in depth interrogation of the very question your raise – Is the negative correlation between Sparrows and Sparrowhawks a spurious correlation? We demonstrate differences in Sparrow population trends in urban and rural habitats and in different regions of Britain, and show that these differences can be explained by parallel variation in Sparrowhawk population trends. We also demonstrate that variation in the timing of House Sparrow decline among 200+ Garden Bird Feeding Survey sites can be explained by variation in the timing of Sparrowhawk appearence in the same sites. We also show that between year variation in Sparrow abundance across the whole sample is more negative when Sparrowhawk is present than when it is absent, and that the difference produces precisely the observed trajectory of decline.

Also, to be fair, the full quote from the abstract is “We argue that urban House Sparrows populations’ long-term release from predator pressure made them especially vulnerable when urban habitats were colonized by Eurasian Sparrowhawks.’ We don’t claim we have evidence for this, but put it forward as a hypothesis in the paper’s discussion. Importantly, it’s a hypothesis that could easily be tested by observational and experimental studies on Sparrow populations in cities with and without Sparrowhawks/Sparrow declines, but don’t hold your breath for the professionals to sanction funding for such a study. In the meantime, we are stuck with anecdote: For instance, when was the last time anyone saw this in London?

With respect to the ‘other variables’ issue, the quality of evidence we have presented in the paper far exceeds that produced for the significance of any of the other putative causes. Perhaps we can discuss one or two of these alternative ideas? Which ones do you favour?

Hi CPBell,
With reference to the numerous Parisian Sparrows, do we know how common Sparrowhawks are in the French capital?
 

nickderry

C'est pas ma faute, je suis anglais.
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CPBell

Well-known member
CAU – Thanks for your interesting and informative post. I would respond first of all by urging caution in interpreting the Birdlife summaries, which cull data from a variety of sources that vary in quality and in the period of coverage. However, I know the Finnish data will be good quality! The Sparrow trend from the Vaisanen paper is well defined, and given the resident status of the species, it will reflect the trend in breeding numbers – do you know why the data only cover the period 1987-2003? The Sparrowhawk data are not so useful, since the species is a partial migrant in Finland, and I suspect a large proportion of the population evacuate the country for the winter. Can you point us in the direction of a reliable reference for the trend in the Sparrowhawk breeding population in Finland?

Nickderry and Moosebird – I see you’ve located Frederic Malher’s splendid Paris bird blog. He also mentions that Sparrows have recently started to disappear from Paris district by district, just as Sparrowhawks start to move in. In other words, the same pattern as in London and Amsterdam, only 20 years later.
 

TwoDipsfromAmsterdam

Anything About?
I came to Paris in 2001. House Sparrow numbers declined very quickly after (not becasue of me I trust!). Sparrowhawk numbers also seem to have declined - I regularly saw Sprawks around where we live but I haven't seen a single Sparrowhawk this year - -but H/Sparrow numbers seem to be increasing! I'm not sure where this leaves the debate especially as it's hardly an empirical study. But maybe there is some correlation between raptor and victim populations - which might challenge Ian Newton's theories in "Popoulation Ecology of Raptors"?

Just a thought - no more, no less.

DiP
 

ColonelBlimp

What time is bird?
Adam W said:
Well yes nobody thinks Sparrowhwaks are cute an fluffy

I think they're cute and fluffy...

CPBell said:
The argument that a conclusion is invalid because it fails to account for unmeasurable variable ‘x’ is tantamount to saying that a problem cannot be addressed scientifically.

Not at all, if the 'unmeasurable variable x' could be a real causative influence! What is unscientific is not providing the required mechanics to promote correlation into causation. A little bit of conjecture about blitzkrieg theory is insufficient!
 

redeyedvideo

It's like water off a duck's back!
Also, isn't it a little dangerous to suggest that sparrow declines can be solely attributed to sparrowhawk increases? The analysis seems to center pretty squarely on matching sparrow/sparrowhawk population changes and then *hey presto* assigning causation when they match?

An excellent conclusion. :t:

A correlation alone between the increase in one species and the decrease in another proves nothing regarding cause.

To take an extreme example, here in Lithuania, I could probably produce a reasonably close correlation between the rise in Great White Egret numbers in the country and an increase in the number of cars in the nation, both having mushroomed in the last decade and a half. However, regardless of an apparent match, it would be fanciful to actually make the leap to suggest one is responsible for the other.

Top post from the most logical thinker on BF

I would respond first of all by urging caution in interpreting the Birdlife summaries

Welcome to BF & thanks for your reasoned discussion.

I can't help thinking that ColonelBlimp is right, it the bird was called e.g. Yellow-legged Hawk would the paper have been written at all? I've conducted my own research and found that the prey of Sparrowhawk in my own garden and the photos in the BF gallery lead me to the conclusion that they should be re-named Dove Hawk.

I've written my own thesis;

Herring Gulls (Larus argentatus) responsible for the decline of Herring (Clupea harengus) in the North Sea...
 
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deboo

.............
In my neck of the suburbs, House Sparrow and Starling numbers have increased in the 10 years i've been here. I have noted the Sparrowhawk presence in the past few years and they seem to have had less impact on the small bird numbers than cats or loss of preferred nesting habitat. i.e. people having upvc facias fitted and blocking off the access to roof space.
Just my obs...but equally as valid eh? say what you see... :)
 

CAU

Well-known member
do you know why the data only cover the period 1987-2003?

It's from an article published in 2003, and the decline started in about 1987 (there is data from 1957 onwards). Here's the article in Finnish:
http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/seurannat/talvilintulaskennat/artikkelit/varpunen.htm

This graph shows some slightly older data, also including data from surveys of breeding birds:
http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/seurannat/talvilintulaskennat/artikkelit/100lajia/kuva27.htm

The Sparrowhawk data are not so useful, since the species is a partial migrant in Finland, and I suspect a large proportion of the population evacuate the country for the winter. Can you point us in the direction of a reliable reference for the trend in the Sparrowhawk breeding population in Finland?

You are correct that the majority of Sparrowhawks are migrants in Finland. Raptor grid surveys suggest a slight decline of the population, but it seems like the nests are becoming harder to find as the age structure of the Finnish forests is changing, and the trend isn't necessarily reliable (see page 56 for a population trend):
http://www.fmnh.helsinki.fi/elainmuseo/rengastus/tutkimus/Finnish_birds_of_prey_2008.pdf
Data from bird observatories suggest that the numbers of autumn migrants (predominantly juveniles) are rising, whereas the number of spring migrants does not show a clear increase (but the spring material is too small to draw any conclusions, as Sparrowhawk has a different migration strategy in spring than in autumn). A study suggests that there has been a statistically significant increase of the brood size during the interval 1973-2007 [1], but on the other hand, data from the raptor grid surveys does not show a statiscally significant increase of the brood size during the interval 1986-2008.

Generally speaking I would assume that Sparrowhawk has not become as urban in Finland as in the UK. Additionally, the populations of Tree Sparrow and Greenfinch have increased significantly during the last few decades, and both occur in similar areas as House Sparrow (well, last year there was a large drop in the Greenfinch population due to trichomoniasis).

[1] Lehikoinen, A. 2009: Climate forcing on avian life history. – Academic dissertation, Helsinki. Summary: http://urn.fi/URN:ISBN:978-952-10-5457-0
 
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lewis20126

Well-known member
Very interesting stuff and well done to CPBell for taking the time to respond.

What data on cats was used? I suspect this is another predator which has increased massively in urban environments the last 50 years. The correlation might not be as neat but might it not be a factor? And would poor correlation be due to the a data set (not sure cats are recorded in the garden bird surveys?)

thanks, alan
 

h14nha

Well-known member
I agree with dantheman. Old wooden fascias have been replaced with plastic ones which don't give the opportunity for entry into our houses anymore.
My parents live on an older estate and House Sparrows sing from most gutters. I live on a modern estate and the Sparrows are quiet.
The move to combination boilers is the biggest factor for me. We have done away with the need for storage tanks in our lofts, from which the plumber would run out the overflow pipes. This was a great entry point for small birds to nest in the eaves. I suspect if people put up sparrow nest boxes we would find they will return to our homes.
I have seen a Sparrowhawk on my fence, only once though but, I see many of my neighbours cats sitting under my feeders constantly. Also the local Grey Squirrel has gnawed the entry hole in my nestbox so he's on the list of suspects for me too.
Ian
 

Robin Edwards

Well-known member
I'm applying no science whatsoever however but feel as others have said, that multiple factors play a part.

With year-round feeding I have managed to sustain a small population of House Sparrows in my neighbourhood despite Cats, Squirrels, Magpies, Sparrowhawks, unleaded petrol etc etc. This suggests to me in a very simplistic way that as long as food supply and environmental factors allow for nesting, then predators alone don't result in there being no sparrows.

I think it to be a fact of life that humanity looks to blame rather than take responsibility. It's so easy to blame another predator than to take consideration for the environment we are otherwise degrading.

In complex situations where there is no single factor at work, scientific evidence is time cosuming and expensive to obtain - in the meantime the sparrows have disappeared.
 

Wildmoreway

Well-known member
As has no doubt been said, I can see the logic in Sparrowhawks being responsible for the decline in the numbers of House Sparrows, the problem is that I have simply never seen the huge number of Sparrowhawks that there would have been needed to have such an effect, quite simply there are plenty of other typical Sparrowhawk prey species that have not declined. To me the more likely explanation is the reduction in potential nesting sites along with possible displacement by other species that have adapted to urban life.

I do remember that in the past House Sparrows would often been absent from towns in August when crops such as wheat and barley were ripe, this of course would be a time when first year birds were building up reserves for winter, it may be that more modern farming practices mean that the crops are no longer available to House Sparrows. I certainly did notice that prior to the huge decline House Sparrow numbers in towns seemed to remain static all year round and the birds did not take their August country "holidays".

Another factor perhaps is that on many public buildings there are measures in place to discourage Pigeons and Starlings from roosting and nesting, in exactly the situation where House Sparrows often prefer to nest, this again could be a factor in their decline.

An example of places that were once suitable for nesting birds such as House Sparrows is larger railway stations with old style buildings, here most now have netting in place to prevent Pigeons and Starlingsfrom roosting and the same netting also prevents other birds such as House Sparrows from roosting.
 
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CPBell

Well-known member
CAU – Thanks, that’s just the ticket. I think we can pronounce Sparrowhawk not guilty of causing the Sparrow decline in Finland on the basis of its breeding population trend there. What is the general opinion over there about why your Sparrows are declining? For me the striking thing about the pattern is its uniformity – it looks more or less the same in different parts of the country and in rural and urban habitats, which is in marked contrast to the situation in Britain. I would therefore hazard a guess that the Finnish decline is connected with something that transcends geography and habitat, and climate is the obvious candidate.

The more I stare at the Sparrow winter count plots, the more I wonder whether there is really a long-term trend. Take out the period 1990-92 and the picture would look very different. The winter of 1990-91 in particular was a severe one across much of Europe and strictly resident Sparrows would have been especially badly hit. Do you know what the trend looks like in Sweden or the Baltic states?

More generally, can I put out an appeal for more posts flagging up this kind of discrepancy, i.e. Sparrow declines with no Sparrowhawk increase, and/or Sparrowhawk increase with no Sparrow decline – preferably involving reliable, good quality data like the Finnish material. Thanks.

Catching up on a few earlier posts..

Steven Astley – Thinking about urban House Sparrows as having formerly been ‘domesticated’ is certainly one way of looking at it. The argument is that prior to the influx of Sparrowhawks into urban areas any Sparrows that were predator averse would have been at a disadvantage. They would not have been able to take advantage of as many food sources as birds that were more willing to move further from cover and devote less time to vigilance. This means that predator averse behaviour would be lost, either through cultural learning or by selection for inherited traits. If the latter it may have been difficult for Sparrows to adjust quickly when Sparrowhawks suddenly appeared. There is an interesting paper on the topic freely available here.

Dalat – I’m not aware that urban Sparrowhawks are having any impact on Pigeon numbers, though I suspect that they have had to switch increasingly to Pigeons following the decline of the urban Sparrow. This might be contributing to a recent downturn in urban Sparrowhawks, since Pigeons are not really ideal prey, being a bit too big. Here in London, for instance Regent’s Park now only hosts one Sparrowhawk nest in a typical year, whereas there have previously been up to three. This, of course, bodes well for a Sparrow rebound.

Mike Price – Your point of view regarding the possible impact of Sparrowhawks on Sparrow populations is shared by many people – how could they possibly take enough Sparrows to cause a decline when Sparrows can multiply so quickly? Common sense can nevertheless be misleading when applied to demography and population dynamics, the results of which can be quite counter-intuitive. Our paper includes a population model with a growth rate taken from studies of wild Sparrow populations, and we assume that Sparrowhawks take 20-30% of Sparrows in any given locality. The model provides a close match to observed population trends across Britain, which correspond to an annual population decline of about 7% following the appearence of Sparrowhawks in a locality from which they were previously absent.

Nickderry, Deboo and Lewis20126 and others mention cats. Cat ownership figures are surprisingly hard to come by, but there is tentative evidence that their numbers might have approximately doubled in Britain since about the 1950s. However there is no reason to believe that the pattern of increase in cats corresponds with that of Sparrow decline in the way that Sparrowhawk does. Why would cats have increased less in the North and West of Britain to produce a less severe Sparrow decline? Why would they have increased later in urban areas than rural areas producing the later urban Sparrow decline? Why would there be a greater increase in cat numbers in the more affluent parts of town? The spurious correlation argument is much more cogent when applied to cats than Sparrowhawks.

http://www.cpbell.co.uk
 

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