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spotting scope and bicycling on rough paths? (2 Viewers)

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
As I suspect you unerstand German quite well, these two articles from the Fahrradzukunft might be interesting for you:
Hi Henning, Werner et al,

Many thanks for the interesting links and comments. I go along with pbjosh that a single speed is more fun and a fixie goes a step further.
However, as my recent performance level is closer to 50 W, I'm more inclined to believe the results of the second test ;).
Perhaps I'm getting too old for this anyway after a really stupid and almost stationary accident, when I fell off my Pedersen.
The diagnosis after a CT yesterday showed a crushed 1st lumber vertebra so it looks like an enforced six week pause for cycling and birding!

Regards,
John
 

Hauksen

Forum member
Hi Henning, Werner et al,

Many thanks for the interesting links and comments. I go along with pbjosh that a single speed is more fun and a fixie goes a step further.
However, as my recent performance level is closer to 50 W, I'm more inclined to believe the results of the second test ;).
Perhaps I'm getting too old for this anyway after a really stupid and almost stationary accident, when I fell off my Pedersen.
The diagnosis after a CT yesterday showed a crushed 1st lumber vertebra so it looks like an enforced six week pause for cycling and birding!

Regards,
John
Hi John,

Ouch, that sounds painful! Get well soon! Or, as bones seem to heal reliably given time, get well as scheduled! ;-)

Stationary accidents can be quite bad, and I believe there's a physical logic behind that. Had one as a kid, worst fall I ever took.

A Pedersen ... I'm impressed, these are really rare and famously convenient. But that's from hearsay as I've never ridden one!

Regards,

Henning
 

Hauksen

Forum member
Agree 100% Henning. I almost always end up with a higher rise on my stem than the bike manufacturer would like to suggest, and I am very fit and flexible, so I could ride a much more aggressive bike if I wanted. When I really need to fight the wind or go fast, that is what the drops are for. The rest of the time, being more comfortable and watching the world go by while relaxing on the hoods in a stress-free position is worth more to me than 1km/h faster.
Hi,

I'm a bit biased here as a recumbent rider, going fast and ducking under the headwinds while sitting comfortably stretched out in a reclining chair. Why choose, when you can have the cake, and eat it too? ;-)

But actually, I love the diversity of bike designs. Every type makes riding a new experience :)

Regards,

Henning
 

etudiant

Registered User
Supporter
I have a single speed and a couple standard derailleur driven bikes. They are close enough in component quality to compare pretty readily. I've never yet noticed a lack of drivetrain efficiency when riding the geared bike, but I certainly notice the lack of efficiency cycling uphill on a single gear, and the lack of top speed on flats or even slight descents. I love single speed riding, absolutely love it, it just makes urban biking so much more fun (for me at least). I preferentially ride my single speed in town and for any outing up to about 10km. But I know that I'm slower on the single speed in almost all circumstances, and on longer rides I tend to be a lot slower. Living somewhere flat will of course mitigate this some, as you mention, but even when I lived in Buenos Aires (which is super flat), I was still faster on a geared bike than a single speed. But I still preferred the single speed around town.

For reference, cribbed from a reputable source - simulating a rider putting out 200W, here is the efficiency of various drive trains:
– 96.2% averaged across typically used gear ratios for 2X Shimano Ultegra (I take this to mean that they didn't include big-big and small-small cross chaining which experienced riders will avoid doing)
– 95.1% averaged for 1X SRAM Force 1
– 94.5% averaged for Rohloff 14-speed
– 90.5% averaged for Pinion 18-speed

A high end single speed track bike can get into the 98%+ efficiency range (depends on power output of course, higher output will yield a higher efficiency as your losses tend not to scale linearly). I've seen the number 97% thrown around for a typical single speed/fixie that is reasonably maintained.

But I just don't think that a few percentage point difference in efficiency (or similar differences in aerodynamics or bike weight) are relevant to most cyclists, and certainly aren't relevant to those of us biking around with our scopes in our panniers (which I also do!).
Surprised the losses in the Pinion are so high. Any ideas why?
 

pbjosh

missing the neotropics
Switzerland
Hi,

I'm a bit biased here as a recumbent rider, going fast and ducking under the headwinds while sitting comfortably stretched out in a reclining chair. Why choose, when you can have the cake, and eat it too? ;-)

But actually, I love the diversity of bike designs. Every type makes riding a new experience :)

Regards,

Henning

I've never ridden a recumbent - would like to try it sometime, though it doesn't quite seem "for me" but then that is what I say having never tried it.

I agree trying all different types of bikes is fun. I had to google what a Pedersen is, would definitely try one of those.

I tried a penny farthing (a new one, not an antique) at a bike event 15-20 years ago. Somewhere between a circus and a nightmare!
 

pbjosh

missing the neotropics
Switzerland
Surprised the losses in the Pinion are so high. Any ideas why?

When Pinions started to become commercially available and show up on touring bikes and the like I was super intrigued (as I had been by the Rohloff). A competitor for the Rohloff naturally generated a lot of discussion and comparisons - and I'm sure I read / learned more about the mechanicals and why the efficiency is different at one point, but have since forgotten, sorry!
 

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
A Pedersen ... I'm impressed, these are really rare and famously convenient. But that's from hearsay as I've never ridden one!
Hi Henning,

After I retired I wanted something I could ride in civvies. Wheel building was a hobby (as it was for yarrellii here on the forum) but no-one seemed to be interested in selling me half a bike. I visited the frame builder Kemper near Ekelenz with a view to getting something conventional but he had all these Pedersens on show and I asked for a test ride. It took them a few minutes to set one up for me (twin seat tubes, steel cable to rear dropouts and seat strap) and I was so impressed with the comfort that I ordered on the spot.
The Pedersen does have its quirks There is no ordinary top tube and the seat strap is higher than the seat, so that should not be forgotten when dismounting and the seat, being more like a hammock makes it difficult to ride hands-free. Also the unusual design of the fork restricts its movement to about 40° each way. That though has never been a problem.
Last week's accident was the second on the Pedesen. A few years ago a car took my right of way in the inner city forcing me into the tram lines. The fall resulted in a broken hip joint and a prosthesis :(. Unkraut und Kanalratten vergehen aber nicht!

Regards,
John
 
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Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
When Pinions started to become commercially available and show up on touring bikes and the like I was super intrigued (as I had been by the Rohloff). A competitor for the Rohloff naturally generated a lot of discussion and comparisons - and I'm sure I read / learned more about the mechanicals and why the efficiency is different at one point, but have since forgotten, sorry!
Perhaps the efficiency difference has something to do with the varying torques at bottom bracket and rear wheel. A 75 kg rider could exert about 120 Nm on the cranks (more if using click pedals). This is similar to the engine on a small car and probably more than most motorcycle engines.

John
 

pbjosh

missing the neotropics
Switzerland
Here's a bit of a comparison video, with a link that discusses likely reasons for the efficiency difference:

 

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
I speak fairly fluent German but this must be some sort of idiomatic expression or reference that I'm unfamiliar with, or I'm just daft. If you don't mind explaining?
Well, I hope this doesn't get reported.
Unkraut vergeht nicht (bad weeds are indestructible) is a common idiom often used self-deprecatingly to belittle an illness or injury.
As a born Englishman I added myself as Kanalratte - double entendre - (English) Channel rat or sewer rat.

John
 

Hauksen

Forum member
After I retired I wanted something I could ride in civvies.

Hi John,

Hm, now I'm linguistically confused. "In civvies" seems to mean "in non-uniform clothing"? Considering the Dursley-Pedersen's history as military bike, I'd have expected the opposite to apply ;-)

I'm glad to hear both you and your sense of humour survived the encounter with a careless German motorist! I've once been the victim of a careless driver too, and I found the indifference to basic road safety rules she showed really hard to stand. Fortunately, while my bike was wrecked, I was OK!

Tram lines really scare me, as I'm from Hamburg where these were torn out when I was a little kid. I crossed some in Cologne the other week, carefully going at right angle to the rails, but my hairs still stood on end.

I have some experience with a recumbent tricycle too, and that's really safe with regard to different road status dangers. You have to watch out for lateral slopes though as they can tilt you on the side if they align with centrifugal forces in sharp corners, so you have to acquire a different set of skills to ride them safely.

My trike was pretty good for transporting delicate equipment safely (to get back on track) as it had a big alumnium box on the rear rack which would take the equivalent of two backpacks volume and protect it from elements and impacts. Some padding inside still made sense anyway, but the rear wheel suspension was pretty effective in filtering out the bumps and vibrations). It was an Anthrotech trike, AnthroTech ... not the most elegant or fastest, but I had bought it with an eye on suitability for poor tracks and winter rides, and it certainly beats most other trikes in that regard. (Not this one, though: Mit dem ICE Liegedreirad zum Südpol - ICLETTA Culture of Cycling )

Regards,

Henning
 

pbjosh

missing the neotropics
Switzerland
Henning I think you make a really good point there - padding in your carrying system is the basic way to protect something, or course, but some sort of suspension will remove a lot more vibration if you're genuinely concerned. Even a bike with bigger tires (say 40+ mm vs 28mm or smaller) is a really big difference in the amount of vibration, both for you and your cargo.
 

Tringa45

Well-known member
Europe
Hi John,

Hm, now I'm linguistically confused. "In civvies" seems to mean "in non-uniform clothing"? Considering the Dursley-Pedersen's history as military bike, I'd have expected the opposite to apply ;-)

I'm glad to hear both you and your sense of humour survived the encounter with a careless German motorist! I've once been the victim of a careless driver too, and I found the indifference to basic road safety rules she showed really hard to stand. Fortunately, while my bike was wrecked, I was OK!

Tram lines really scare me, as I'm from Hamburg where these were torn out when I was a little kid. I crossed some in Cologne the other week, carefully going at right angle to the rails, but my hairs still stood on end.

I have some experience with a recumbent tricycle too, and that's really safe with regard to different road status dangers. You have to watch out for lateral slopes though as they can tilt you on the side if they align with centrifugal forces in sharp corners, so you have to acquire a different set of skills to ride them safely.

My trike was pretty good for transporting delicate equipment safely (to get back on track) as it had a big alumnium box on the rear rack which would take the equivalent of two backpacks volume and protect it from elements and impacts. Some padding inside still made sense anyway, but the rear wheel suspension was pretty effective in filtering out the bumps and vibrations). It was an Anthrotech trike, AnthroTech ... not the most elegant or fastest, but I had bought it with an eye on suitability for poor tracks and winter rides, and it certainly beats most other trikes in that regard. (Not this one, though: Mit dem ICE Liegedreirad zum Südpol - ICLETTA Culture of Cycling )

Regards,

Henning
Hi Henning,

By "civvies" I just meant street clothing as opposed to cycling clothing. Civvies are in conflict with click pedals and cycling shoes.

I can understand your preference for a recumbant in the windy North. I once hired a bike and trailer on Juist (where no cars are allowed) to transport scope and tripod. I think I used 2nd gear (of 7) most of the time!

Looked up Maria Leijerstam and saw that she made the journey in 10 days, almost 4 weeks faster than her male rivals! It made me think of Freya Hoffmeister. It seems that the toughest of the tough are women.

John
 

Hauksen

Forum member
Hi John,

By "civvies" I just meant street clothing as opposed to cycling clothing. Civvies are in conflict with click pedals and cycling shoes.

Ah, thanks - now it makes sense! :)

I can understand your preference for a recumbant in the windy North. I once hired a bike and trailer on Juist (where no cars are allowed) to transport scope and tripod. I think I used 2nd gear (of 7) most of the time!

The wind really isn't single-speeder friendly, I'm afraid! But I've recently moved to the Cologne area, so I'm re-evaluating bikes right now. Seems that whenever I leave the Rhine valley, I need very slow gears - and when I come back, I need good brakes ;-)

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)
 

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