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Message: <blockquote data-quote="dan pointon" data-source="post: 1472767" data-attributes="member: 20738">Well I saw this bird today, albeit not ideally, and have tried to look at it unblinkered ie ignoring what I would prefer it to be! I have studied it and other individuals and have a few comments to add to the discussion, probably turn out useless!- The bill is obviously a point of talking, and the bills of these two species can and do overlap in size as demonstrated by CAU. I personally think this birds bill is at the extremely long end of Semi-p range, but is only reasonably short assuming it's a Western. The lack of any sort of decurvature is a bit worrying, but the bill does not appear as stout as those of Semi-p, and gives the tapering appearance of Western, lacking the 'blob' at the tip. Links 3 and 5 show that this size bill is not uncommon in Western Sandpiper.- Head pattern, in particular the meeting of supercilia above the bill base is a pro Western feature.- The jizz of this bird in my opinion more represents Western Sand than Semi-P. To my eye Western always appear more 'square headed' and bull necked, giving a much stouter appearance than that of Semi-p which do actually appear to have a neck! The initial shots of this bird appeared to show this, however this could be accounted for by the fact the bird is roosting. However if we look at Kevs new photo, which I have attached as Link 1 below, the bird still gives this bull necked appearance with the neck being almost non-existent. This difference in head and neck shape can be seen in the link attached below as Link 2 - a cracking comparison shot of the two species and whilst they're clearly in different plumages to the Devon bird this has no effect on the jizz of the head and neck.The majority of Semi-ps, as demonstrated by the bird in Link 2 show an attenuated rear, the slightly longer projection of the primaries past the tertials giving it the impression of tapering off; in Western this is much less obvious and it gives a blunter impression. Link 3 shows this (assuming the photographer is right in his ID!), and this bird looks remarkably similar to the Devon bird, particularly in bill length. This bird is however an adult and this explains why the supercillium is not as strong as on the Devon bird.- Breast streaking. Although the pictures of the Devon bird are not the best, it can be seen that some streaking does extend in fine lines down the sides of the breast. This is very similar to the bird in Link 3 - which is a better focused image, giving greater detail of this streaking. I have also attached an image of an extremely fluffed up Semi-p as Link 4 - this bird is a classic example of how diffuse the upper breast streaking is in Semi-p when compared to Western. (Ignore the fact this bird gives a bull-necked appearance as it is extremely fluffed up!)To me this bird gives the overall stockier appearance I generally associate with Western Sandpiper, and were it not for the bill I think it would be a much more clear cut decision! Hopefully it will moult through a bit more and we will see some rufous scapulars - if not what a waste of an afternoon that has been collating the info I post here!!Link 1 - <a href="http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=195095&d=1241474309" target="_blank">http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=195095&d=1241474309</a>Link 2 - <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3222/2662355522_d151a67b53.jpg" target="_blank">http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3222/2662355522_d151a67b53.jpg</a>Link 3 - <a href="http://www.giffbeaton.com/Shorebirds/Western%20Sandpiper_2004-12-17_0110.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.giffbeaton.com/Shorebirds/Western Sandpiper_2004-12-17_0110.jpg</a>Link 4 - <a href="http://www.tsuru-bird.net/georgia_200802/sandpiper_semipalmated_winter_1a.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tsuru-bird.net/georgia_200802/sandpiper_semipalmated_winter_1a.jpg</a>Link 5 - <a href="http://www.natura-aviflora.com/images/2007Jan-Wstrn.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.natura-aviflora.com/images/2007Jan-Wstrn.jpg</a>CheersD</blockquote>

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