• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Stonechat, Hainan and Shanghai (1 Viewer)

Hainan on the fly

Well-known member
The first picture is from Hainan in November and the second Shanghai in October. Are both of these birds Amur's Stonechat? I'm a little confused on the nomenclature here.... Let me see if I have it correct. Amur's Stonechat and Stejneger's Stonechat are both common names for the same species saxicola stejnegeri but some sources consider saxicola stejnegeri a subspecies of Siberian Stonechat (saxicola maurus) and therefor name it saxicola maurus stejnegeri. Originally I called the Hainan bird Siberian Stonechat but I think I must have missed something in making that identification a couple of years ago. Just trying to clarify as I'm not 100% sure I've got it correct now. As always, any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian
 

Attachments

  • hainan stonechat.jpg
    hainan stonechat.jpg
    379.3 KB · Views: 46
  • Shangahi stonechat.jpg
    Shangahi stonechat.jpg
    498.3 KB · Views: 43
The first picture is from Hainan in November and the second Shanghai in October. Are both of these birds Amur's Stonechat? I'm a little confused on the nomenclature here.... Let me see if I have it correct. Amur's Stonechat and Stejneger's Stonechat are both common names for the same species saxicola stejnegeri but some sources consider saxicola stejnegeri a subspecies of Siberian Stonechat (saxicola maurus) and therefor name it saxicola maurus stejnegeri. Originally I called the Hainan bird Siberian Stonechat but I think I must have missed something in making that identification a couple of years ago. Just trying to clarify as I'm not 100% sure I've got it correct now. As always, any input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian
Think that's broadly right. Amur seems to be the Clements / ebird name ["Amur" rather than "Amur's"]. According to ebird you can't safely separate most stejnegeri from Siberian stonechat [S. maurus] based on current knowledge. So I suspect you can't go further with your images than saying it's one of these 2.
 
As mentioned, Amur and Stejneger's are both names for the same taxon (Saxicola stejnegeri). Amur is the name used by Clements/eBird, and Stejneger's is the name used by IOC.
Clements/eBird only split the species last summer - before this stejnegeri was included as a subspecies of Siberian (S. maura), and you may see still see it listed there in a few places.

As THE_FERN mentions, separation of stejnegeri from maura is difficult. On range, your birds should both be stejnegeri, which is common in southeast China in winter.

There is a chance that maura could occur in the area as a vagrant (and it has been claimed before in Hong Kong) but I think you'd need good evidence to claim one. Another thing to remember is that there is a subspecies of Siberian Stonechat breeding in the mountains of central China - Saxicola maura przewalskii. I don't know whether this moves out of the mountains towards the lowlands and coast in winter but I'm not aware of any records. It should be slightly different from stejnegeri, eg darker orange on the breast of males, but I don't have a lot of experience of przewalskii to say how difficult out of range individuals would be to identify.
 
As mentioned, Amur and Stejneger's are both names for the same taxon (Saxicola stejnegeri). Amur is the name used by Clements/eBird, and Stejneger's is the name used by IOC.
Clements/eBird only split the species last summer - before this stejnegeri was included as a subspecies of Siberian (S. maura), and you may see still see it listed there in a few places.

As THE_FERN mentions, separation of stejnegeri from maura is difficult. On range, your birds should both be stejnegeri, which is common in southeast China in winter.

There is a chance that maura could occur in the area as a vagrant (and it has been claimed before in Hong Kong) but I think you'd need good evidence to claim one. Another thing to remember is that there is a subspecies of Siberian Stonechat breeding in the mountains of central China - Saxicola maura przewalskii. I don't know whether this moves out of the mountains towards the lowlands and coast in winter but I'm not aware of any records. It should be slightly different from stejnegeri, eg darker orange on the breast of males, but I don't have a lot of experience of przewalskii to say how difficult out of range individuals would be to identify.
Thanks so much for the very detailed and informative reply John. I really appreciate you taking the time to clarify this for me.

Brian
 
Warning! This thread is more than 2 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top