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Swarovski NL vs Zeiss SF: a personal comparison of two 8x32s. (1 Viewer)

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cottonbase

Well-known member
You know what he's like, yet you still rise to the bait.

Not sure what's worse, Dennis, or adults behaving like children.
 

A2GG

Beth
United States
These photos are all over the net. If only he said in the same post it was a joke...oh well.
Post 135 seems to suggest Dennis was hinting it was all a joke by adding the LOL emoji ... this came before Lee discovered where the photo originated.

Maybe Dennis was joking the whole way and waiting to see if someone would get it (?) I dunno ...
 

henry link

Well-known member
I'd like to take a deep breath and ask whether we're sure that Henry's analysis of baffling in the NL 8x42 applies equally to the 10x32 under discussion here. Do the 32mm models really have exactly the same problem, to the same degree? Does the 10x model of either size do better? Is there some reason Swarovski might have hesitated to make the baffle slightly larger?
Hi tenex,

Remember this thread?


Looks like you were one of the participants. Deja vu all over again, isn't it? This thread started as a review of the 8x32. I haven't seen the 10x32, but I expect the fronts of the 8x32 and 10x32, where the glare happens, are very similar if not identical. I'll see if I can find a 10x locally and report back.

Henry
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
I deleted it. It was just a joke. I didn't think anybody would take it seriously! I try to lighten things up a bit once in a while to keep things interesting. Sorry, if you or the members didn't see the humor in it. Sometimes I think Americans and British have a slightly different sense of humor, and my attempts at it are sometimes taken out of context.
Dennis you made a simple unambiguous statement that you took the photo. There was no sign of irony or humour. It was a bad joke and you came within gnat's brainwave of being banned for life.

Lee
MODERATOR
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Holger Merlitz reviewed Swaro's EL and NL 8x32s (Review: Swarovski 8x32 NL Pure vs. 8x32 EL WB ) and said this about their ability to deal with glare:

"Stray light: The tendency to develop stray-light in some situations remains the only considerable weakness in both binoculars. In difficult light conditions, bright spots are emerging around the edges of the exit pupils, which tend to create partial whiteouts (in most cases a crescent-shaped glare in the lower half of the field) when the eye-pupils accidentally get in contact with them. A careful setting of eyecup positions and a certain discipline in the way and angle at which the instrument is held in front of the eyes go a long way to avoid these whiteouts in the vast majority of situations. Observer's reports vary wildly about the severeness of the glare, ranging from 'irrelevant' to 'irritating'. Fact is that there exist binoculars (including the Zeiss 8x32 SF) with a superior resistance against stray light".

Lee
 

Canip

Well-known member
I am big admirer of Holger and love his posts, tests, articles and his wonderful book, which should be mandatory reading for posters in a forum like this one. And I usually agree with Holger‘s findings; the above test is a slight exception (for me, it is not as complicated as Holger puts it - almost sounds like rocket science in Holger’s words - to avoid glare in the NLs, and I can trigger stray-light effects in the SF which contradict his term „superior resistance“).
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
I am big admirer of Holger and love his posts, tests, articles and his wonderful book, which should be mandatory reading for posters in a forum like this one. And I usually agree with Holger‘s findings; the above test is a slight exception (for me, it is not as complicated as Holger puts it - almost sounds like rocket science in Holger’s words - to avoid glare in the NLs, and I can trigger stray-light effects in the SF which contradict his term „superior resistance“).
I certainly found in my comparison that with NL slight changes in eye postion relative to the exit pupil could make dramatic differences to extent of the glare during my own test so to this extent Holger's findings were similar to mine. And while I also found some level of glare in SF 8x32 it was always very significantly less extensive and less dense than NL. So again, I would agree with Holger on this too.

And he made clear how variable the reports have been from observers as to how much glare they saw. Of course observers don't always give full details about the conditions during which they tested the NLs which is why I was keen to document the conditions of my test and include a photograph.

I look forward to using the NL in real-life nature observing conditions on Islay in a few month's time.

Lee
 

GrampaTom

Well-known member
United States
Holger Merlitz reviewed Swaro's EL and NL 8x32s (Review: Swarovski 8x32 NL Pure vs. 8x32 EL WB ) and said this about their ability to deal with glare:

"Stray light: The tendency to develop stray-light in some situations remains the only considerable weakness in both binoculars. In difficult light conditions, bright spots are emerging around the edges of the exit pupils, which tend to create partial whiteouts (in most cases a crescent-shaped glare in the lower half of the field) when the eye-pupils accidentally get in contact with them. A careful setting of eyecup positions and a certain discipline in the way and angle at which the instrument is held in front of the eyes go a long way to avoid these whiteouts in the vast majority of situations. Observer's reports vary wildly about the severeness of the glare, ranging from 'irrelevant' to 'irritating'. Fact is that there exist binoculars (including the Zeiss 8x32 SF) with a superior resistance against stray light".

Lee
Yes, well, He also summarized in the last sentence, "To me, the NL Pure appears perfect, with the only exception being its occasionally erratic stray light behavior.'

You and Henry seem to like that above paragraph to justify the glare drum beat thing. If Holger says theyre perfect and glare is occasional and erratic (meaning for those who see it and dont know how to deal with it), Im in. Thats different. Isnt this path a bit worn by now?

The question we should be talking about, allowing that glare is a thing for some, is how many? What percent of bino users see glare? How many actually recognize its a thing? 2%, 20%, 50%? The time allotted to this conversation over years, if the percent of folks who're bothered by it is small, then what are we doing? How about a sticky, that once and for all sits at the top of Bino subform explains that glare is a thing for some X% of folks who look through binos. We understand that, we acknowledge that. for those folks some brands and models seem to have it more, yada yada....

Come on Lee
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Yes, well, He also summarized in the last sentence, "To me, the NL Pure appears perfect, with the only exception being its occasionally erratic stray light behavior.'

You and Henry seem to like that above paragraph to justify the glare drum beat thing. If Holger says theyre perfect and glare is occasional and erratic (meaning for those who see it and dont know how to deal with it), Im in. Thats different. Isnt this path a bit worn by now?

The question we should be talking about, allowing that glare is a thing for some, is how many? What percent of bino users see glare? How many actually recognize its a thing? 2%, 20%, 50%? The time allotted to this conversation over years, if the percent of folks who're bothered by it is small, then what are we doing? How about a sticky, that once and for all sits at the top of Bino subform explains that glare is a thing for some X% of folks who look through binos. We understand that, we acknowledge that. for those folks some brands and models seem to have it more, yada yada....

Come on Lee
He also wrote "The tendency to develop stray-light in some situations remains the only considerable weakness in both binoculars".

I have no idea how many people see glare and how many don't, and neither do you. Neither do we know how many people avoid the situations where they might see glare and then declare they don't see it, when what they mean is, they avoid it.

Binocular manufacturers blacken the inside of the optical tubes and some build-in baffles and all of this is to suppress the stray light we call glare. Why do you think they do it? I suggest it isn't because only 2% of bino users notice glare.

Come on Tom

Lee
 

A2GG

Beth
United States
My Nikon MHG 8x30 exhibits glare frequently, but I'm used to it now and work around it. I can think of two occasions when the glare degraded the view so badly I had to give up and look in a different direction. These happened in the morning when the sun was low.

I do miss the Ultravid's exceptional glare control. It was never an issue and rarely noticed.
 

GrampaTom

Well-known member
United States
He also wrote "The tendency to develop stray-light in some situations remains the only considerable weakness in both binoculars".

I have no idea how many people see glare and how many don't, and neither do you. Neither do we know how many people avoid the situations where they might see glare and then declare they don't see it, when what they mean is, they avoid it.

Binocular manufacturers blacken the inside of the optical tubes and some build-in baffles and all of this is to suppress the stray light we call glare. Why do you think they do it? I suggest it isn't because only 2% of bino users notice glare.

Come on Tom

Lee
Is there a point here Lee? You know of my background and history in related businesses. I’ve known the internal blackening story for decades. I believe you are conflating a couple themes in ways that aren’t helpful.

You make my point. We don’t know how many see glare as a thing emanating from the binocular, made worse by it, compared to what Mother Nature is serving up. We should.
 

Gijs van Ginkel

Well-known member
I wrote already a couple of times that I do not observe glare/internal reflections using the NL 8x32, 8x42, the Zeiss SF 8x32, but I understand now that something is wrong with me. So before consulting a psychiater I asked Jan van Daalen how many customers came back to him with complaints about glare in these binoculars and he reported: "zero", so that makes the matter puzzling and highly mysterious..
Gijs van Ginkel.
 

birdcat

Well-known member
Supporter
United States
I wrote already a couple of times that I do not observe glare/internal reflections using the NL 8x32, 8x42, the Zeiss SF 8x32, but I understand now that something is wrong with me. So before consulting a psychiater I asked Jan van Daalen how many customers came back to him with complaints about glare in these binoculars and he reported: "zero", so that makes the matter puzzling and highly mysterious..
Gijs van Ginkel.
I would suggest that the average buyer has not had the chance to compare two alpha binoculars at length and under a variety of conditions. If you only know one thing, how would you know what to complain about?
 

Conndomat

United States of Europe
Ukraine
I would suggest that the average buyer has not had the chance to compare two alpha binoculars at length and under a variety of conditions. If you only know one thing, how would you know what to complain about?
I would say the average buyer rarely pays more than 2000 euros for a pair of binoculars!
Most people willing to pay that kind of money surely have access to optical quality.;)

Andreas
 

Paultricounty

Well-known member
United States
I think most anybody buying $2000 to $3000 binoculars are familiar with optical shortfalls, and are aware that most all binoculars have some issue with glare. Ive also spoken to a few dealers who had practically zero returns on NL’s (Swaros in general) other than a few defects.

I think we’re starting to beat a dead horse here. Glare is so subjective to each person. Eyes change with time and age, if there’s been any Lasik surgery , eyeglass wearers, type of eyeglasses. I have two dozen Binoculars, there’s not one binocular that doesn’t have glare at some point or another.

Another interesting thing is that sometimes you see glare in one binocular and not the other observing a specific position, then you observe a different position and there’s more glare in the other binocular.

The NL‘s are amazing Binoculars, let’s bury the horse already🙄

Paul
 

GrampaTom

Well-known member
United States
I think most anybody buying $2000 to $3000 binoculars are familiar with optical shortfalls, and are aware that most all binoculars have some issue with glare. Ive also spoken to a few dealers who had practically zero returns on NL’s (Swaros in general) other than a few defects.

I think we’re starting to beat a dead horse here. Glare is so subjective to each person. Eyes change with time and age, if there’s been any Lasik surgery , eyeglass wearers, type of eyeglasses. I have two dozen Binoculars, there’s not one binocular that doesn’t have glare at some point or another.

Another interesting thing is that sometimes you see glare in one binocular and not the other observing a specific position, then you observe a different position and there’s more glare in the other binocular.

The NL‘s are amazing Binoculars, let’s bury the horse already🙄

Paul
Starting?
 

dorubird

Well-known member
Romania
I think there are several types of binoculars situation in relation to glare:

1 bino in which glare is evident without much effort in many lighting situations, being very intrusive glare.
It is obvious to all user

2 bino in which glare must be looked for very carefully in certain position in order to be seen some intrusive glare.
But it can only be seen by those who deliberately provoke it and know exactly how and where to look for glare test.

3 bino in which glare must be looked for very carefully in certain position in order to be seen very faintly and no intrusive glare.
It can only be seen by those experience users who deliberately provoke it and know exactly how and where to look for glare test.

4 bino in which glare is absent in any situation.

From the multitude of reports and various opinions I have read (not in my own experience with these models) I made an average conclusion: apparently NL 8x32 is part somewhere in the middle between 2 and 3, maybe closer to 2. And Zeiss 8x32 seems to belong to 3 category
 
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