The extirpation of eagles from Scotland (windfarms again) (1 Viewer)

[Tyke]

THE SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE SAW THE LIGHT, AT LONG LAST!



The Sunday Times October 30, 2005

Ministers step in to bitter Skye wind farm dispute
Jason Allardyce

THE former head of Channel 4, Sir Jeremy Isaacs, has won a partial victory
in an angry dispute over the planned siting of a wind farm on the Isle of
Skye.

The Scottish executive is to call in an application for the erection of 27
turbines at Edinbane, taking the decision out of the hands of local
councillors who voted to approve the developments. A similar scheme at
neighbouring Ben Aketil is also to be recalled by ministers.

Isaacs was one of a number of objectors, claiming the turbines would
threaten rare wildlife, damage the landscape and harm the tourism industry.

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds claimed that collisions with
the blades could kill one golden eagle every two years.

The executive has now accepted that the plans could have a serious impact
on some of the world's most endangered birds. Ministers want to consider
them in detail before deciding whether the turbines should be allowed.

The move reflects growing unease about the impact of turbines on sensitive
sites around Scotland.

The scale of concern within the executive is revealed in an exchange of
private e-mails obtained using freedom of information legislation.

Dr Ian Bainbridge, the executive's chief ecological adviser, told
colleagues in the environment and rural affairs department that he had
"concerns about the possible effects on golden eagles from the two sites
combined and, on the data provided, associated with the Edinbane case in
particular".

He added: "It may well be sensible to call in both cases and give more
consideration to the potential effects of both. We are beginning to see
very clearly the need for cumulative assessments of the effects on gold
eagles in particular."

His comments were in relation to a letter sent to the department by the
Royal Society for the Protection of Birds.

Stuart Housden, the society's Scottish director, warned that new data
gathered by the developer behind the Ben Aketil plan "establishes that a
very high collision risk to golden eagles will occur if the Edinbane
proposal is built".

He added: "This will impact on the golden eagle population for a large area
of the western Highlands."

An executive source said it was now certain that the plans would be called
in for ministers to consider, leading at the very least to a lengthy delay.
Ministers may decide to order a public inquiry into the plans, demand that
they be scaled down or reject them outright.

He said views within the executive had changed and while ministers still
see a role for wind farms under their target of generating 40% of the
country's power from green sources by 2020, they are becoming keener on
wave energy which is likely to provoke less controversy.

"Basically people like Bainbridge have won the argument. There are still
those who think the evidence that golden eagles are at risk is flimsy but
we're not going to take the chance. The executive is going to take a close
interest in these projects and that means calling them in," said one
executive source.

Isaacs and his wife Gillian Widdicombe, who claim to have experienced abuse
over their opposition to the plans, welcomed the change of heart.

"I'm very glad to know that some people in the executive now realise it
isn't black and white and that they have to give thoughts to others as well
as to their own predilections about arbitrary targets which are not
joined-up energy policy," he said.

"We were concerned about important general issues. Onshore wind farms in
some cases patently are a blot on Scotland's wonderful landscape, a threat
to its wildlife and can damage Scotland's important tourism industry."

Isaacs said that he would continue to highlight the risks posed by wind
farms "across the whole of Scotland and particularly in the Highlands and
Islands".

Among them is a plan to build Britain's biggest wind farm on the
neighbouring island of Lewis. The Western Isles council has backed the
scheme but the application now looks likely to be called in by ministers,
following warnings that it could kill at least 50 golden eagles, 50 merlin
and up to 150 red-throated divers due to collisions.

Absolutely bloody fantastic news Mark.

"..cumulative effects....impact populations in a wide area..." !!
Where have I heard this before !!

At last a senior local environmentalist has joined the fray.
You must be so pleased-& does this mean Lewis might be safe?

All the abuse, and all the so called "experts" talking crap!!, and the devious developers-lets hope they are becoming history.

Well done to you, and to PROACT, and to everyone involved in this breakthrough.

Colin

 

[Tyke]

Colin I was merely saying that I believe that climate change effects on breeding season food supply is much more likely to result in the extirpation of WTE in Scotland than collision with wind farms and that their current trend for feeding their young on lambs rather than fish and seabirds, is likely to result in an increase in illegal poisoning/shooting.

Their penchant for carrion eating (road/rail kill) and slow take-off ability is the main reason why they get hit by vehicles.

Mark - this thread is about eagles and threats to them, particularly in Scotland. You will find that I am limiting my posts to that subject.

Jane I know what you were saying. You dont have to repeat it . I think you are wrong & I have provided my reasons for this conclusion.But I suppose I will have to repeat them too.
The Bird Life International WTE Action Plan for Europe which I posted says specifically that Wind Turbines in WTE territories are a significant threat. They say this for a reason-which is that the key vulnerability in the WTE survival strategy is it's low offspring rate. They compensate by living to a ripe old age. Therefore any man made objects ( like the wires/pylons/trains ...god knows what which cause 30% to 40% of mortality in some EC countries) which increase adult mortality are a SIGNIFICANT risk to them.

Variation in food source is NOT identified as a risk for them in the BLI study. Read the BWP section on WTE feeding habits-they are generalists-abbatoir offal/fishing boat offal/carrion/mammals/wildfowl/gulls/auks/herons//eggs/fish/-they are predators/scavengers/kleptoparasites-they will frequently rob Osprey/Red Kite/Buzzard/Peregrine In my humble opinion WTE is actually well placed to cope with climate change in Scotland ( this is only an opinion-its NOT put forward for debate)

Frankly I am becoming very wary of any assertion you make which is not substantiated by credible proof . Your remarks about the "current trend" of eating lambs implies a population wide "trend". I can only find reference to it on Mull, where vociferous opposition to the WTE is found in the islands press. Could this be connected to the tension between WTE conservation, and Lots of Money from the proposed Wind Farm there?

On your reference to "fish" in their diet-which fish species are you talking about? WTE fishes in shallow waters-Lakes/Estuaries/Inshore. How many of the species -like cod-which are migrating north in the N Sea are found in shallow waters & are part of the WTE diet? How many of the new species coming into the N Sea-like Red Mullet & exotic Wrass might be available for WTE in shallow waters? And what is the relevance of the North Sea fish population to the West Coast Scottish WTE? These are questions I'm just mulling over Jane-I'm not inviting a response.

I am quite content with the confirmatory evidence for Wind Farm risk to WTE-but much more to the point very happy that at long last this risk has been recognised now by the Scottish Executive in connection with Golden Eagle.WTE will benefit from this if common sense prevails in the Scottish Executive-as will the glorious Scottish Landscape.

Meantime, I feel confident that WTE will be able to feed itself north of the border for many years to come.

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Mark

I would be interested in your reply to Tim Allwood's post #352 reference who did the burning. If not suitable for general submission to the forum a pm would suffice.

Best wishes

Roy

I did not reply to Tim's post # 352. How should I know who is burning eagles' nests on Lewis? It would take a police investigation to determine that. But it isn't windfarm skeptics, that's for sure!


BTW, this wildlife crime was mentioned in the environmental statement for Eishken, if I am not mistaken.

Mark

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Jane I know what you were saying. You dont have to repeat it . I think you are wrong & I have provided my reasons for this conclusion.But I suppose I will have to repeat them too.
The Bird Life International WTE Action Plan for Europe which I posted says specifically that Wind Turbines in WTE territories are a significant threat. They say this for a reason-which is that the key vulnerability in the WTE survival strategy is it's low offspring rate. They compensate by living to a ripe old age. Therefore any man made objects ( like the wires/pylons/trains ...god knows what which cause 30% to 40% of mortality in some EC countries) which increase adult mortality are a SIGNIFICANT risk to them.

Variation in food source is NOT identified as a risk for them in the BLI study. Read the BWP section on WTE feeding habits-they are generalists-abbatoir offal/fishing boat offal/carrion/mammals/wildfowl/gulls/auks/herons//eggs/fish/-they are predators/scavengers/kleptoparasites-they will frequently rob Osprey/Red Kite/Buzzard/Peregrine In my humble opinion WTE is actually well placed to cope with climate change in Scotland ( this is only an opinion-its NOT put forward for debate)

Frankly I am becoming very wary of any assertion you make which is not substantiated by credible proof . Your remarks about the "current trend" of eating lambs implies a population wide "trend". I can only find reference to it on Mull, where vociferous opposition to the WTE is found in the islands press. Could this be connected to the tension between WTE conservation, and Lots of Money from the proposed Wind Farm there?

On your reference to "fish" in their diet-which fish species are you talking about? WTE fishes in shallow waters-Lakes/Estuaries/Inshore. How many of the species -like cod-which are migrating north in the N Sea are found in shallow waters & are part of the WTE diet? How many of the new species coming into the N Sea-like Red Mullet & exotic Wrass might be available for WTE in shallow waters? And what is the relevance of the North Sea fish population to the West Coast Scottish WTE? These are questions I'm just mulling over Jane-I'm not inviting a response.

I am quite content with the confirmatory evidence for Wind Farm risk to WTE-but much more to the point very happy that at long last this risk has been recognised now by the Scottish Executive in connection with Golden Eagle.WTE will benefit from this if common sense prevails in the Scottish Executive-as will the glorious Scottish Landscape.

Meantime, I feel confident that WTE will be able to feed itself north of the border for many years to come.

:clap:

Now THAT is a brilliantly developped argument! Congratulations, Colin!

Mark

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Absolutely bloody fantastic news Mark.

"..cumulative effects....impact populations in a wide area..." !!
Where have I heard this before !!

At last a senior local environmentalist has joined the fray.
You must be so pleased-& does this mean Lewis might be safe?

All the abuse, and all the so called "experts" talking crap!!, and the devious developers-lets hope they are becoming history.

Well done to you, and to PROACT, and to everyone involved in this breakthrough.

Colin

Thank you, Colin.

Someone called the Scottish Executive for confirmation of the good news: they apparently deny the plans were called off!

So either the Sunday Times' journalist is off his rocker, or the SE is trying to gain some time on a leak that came out too soon?

They haven't published a denial, though.

Does anybody know more about this crucial matter?


Mark

 

[Edward woodwood]

I did not reply to Tim's post # 352. How should I know who is burning eagles' nests on Lewis? It would take a police investigation to determine that. But it isn't windfarm skeptics, that's for sure!


BTW, this wildlife crime was mentioned in the environmental statement for Eishken, if I am not mistaken.

Mark

yeah but you mention it with the distinct implication there's a connection with the wind farm

really really disingenuous

Tim

 

[Jos Stratford]

I would not be attracting so much flack if I were not effective. You guys would just let me self-destruct. Yet you, Tim, Jane, "alienated" as you were, all followed me here from the wind-farm thread when I left it. Why don't you leave me alone on this thread if you don't like my style?

I'll be relieved to be discussing the eagles issue with open-minded people for a change - something you and your friends are trying to stop by any and all means. Hence this constant barrage of character assassination, from Tim in particular.

Yours is more subtle. Birdman also used this "you-alienate-even-your-friends" line. You are two cool, if somewhat devious, dudes!


Mark :gn:

Ah, I shall have to bow down before you Lord DC, what was it about that Emperor with no clothes :'D


As for the possible defeat of plans to build windfarms on Lewis, truely fantastic news. I hope the RSPB, Proact and others will continue to fight all windfarms deemed a significant threat to wildlife. Do you have any good words for the RSPB Lord DC?

 

[Roy Ledgerton]

I did not reply to Tim's post # 352. How should I know who is burning eagles' nests on Lewis? It would take a police investigation to determine that. But it isn't windfarm skeptics, that's for sure!


BTW, this wildlife crime was mentioned in the environmental statement for Eishken, if I am not mistaken.

Mark

I realise you did not reply to Tim's post #352 that was why I posted my polite request for this information which quoted your original post suggesting that burning of nests had taken place. I clearly made the mistake in assuming that, as in all your previous posts on this subject, your information and knowledge was complete and irrefutable. My apologies. Keep up the good work.

Best wishes

Roy

 

[Edward woodwood]

I clearly made the mistake in assuming that, as in all your previous posts on this subject, your information and knowledge was complete and irrefutable. My apologies. Keep up the good work.

Best wishes

Roy

it was as accurate as usual, shall we say?

Tim

 

[walwyn]

yeah but you mention it with the distinct implication there's a connection with the wind farm

really really disingenuous

Isn't burning the heather part of the local land managementm, what are the regulation concerning that?

Does anyone know for sure that it has occurred. The only reference I can find are on Mark's website and he now seems rather doubtful.

 

[Reay_Bonxie]

WTE populations are soaring, despite climate change...

But of course the real question is, what would be their population without climate change?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/features/328feature1.shtml

Now did someone mention sand eels?

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

WTE populations are soaring, despite climate change...

Don't you mean the WTE population is beginning to recover again after their extermination in Britain at the hand of Man and a lengthy reintroduction process?

To suggest that their population is soaring may lead some people to believe that their numbers are at an all-time high ...

Without the reintroductions, their breeding population would still be zero in the UK, regardless of any climate (or other) changes.

Andy.

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Don't you mean the WTE population is beginning to recover again after their extermination in Britain at the hand of Man and a lengthy reintroduction process?

To suggest that their population is soaring may lead some people to believe that their numbers are at an all-time high ...

Without the reintroductions, their breeding population would still be zero in the UK, regardless of any climate (or other) changes.

Andy.

Indeed, and 32 breeding pairs is not a large number. It would not take long to extirpate them with 1,000+ wind turbines in their preferred habitat.

Mark

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Ah, I shall have to bow down before you Lord DC, what was it about that Emperor with no clothes :'D

You turbine-huggers have been using that expression over and over again, and always improperly. Here is the correct definition:

"The Emperor Wears No Clothes" or "The Emperor Has No Clothes" is often used in political and social contexts for any obvious truth denied by the majority despite the evidence of their eyes, especially when proclaimed by the government."

May I remind you then that YOU are one of the majority who believes what the government tells them about GW, wind turbines, and the uselessness of preserving nature, landscapes, eagles...

We sceptics, on the contrary, are the ones tearing the myth apart.

So get it straight, Jos.


Mark

 

[Jane Turner]

Mark - There is evidence that a similar species has changed its feeding habits remarkably in response to a collapse in Cod numbers. See papers I listed a few pages back.

There is evidence that WTE's are eating lambs:

With regards to lambs the Scottish Executive and Scottish Natural Heritage, commissioned a study of the interaction between white-tailed eagles and lambs on Mull, in 1999 and 2000.
The results showed that the diet of 11 pairs of white-tailed eagles during the breeding season was species-diverse but included lambs. A lack of alternative prey (rabbits) and the proximity of the nest to a lambing area in 1999 may have been responsible for higher lamb predation. There was no information as to whether lambs killed by eagles would otherwise have survived. The study found that the number of lambs was small compared with overall lamb mortality, but sufficient to be an important loss to an individual farmer if eagle predation of lambs was additive and concentrated on one farm. There is no information to suggest that raptors take significant numbers of lambs elsewhere in the UK. Further information on this study is available in: Birds of Prey in a Changing Environment, pp471–479, published in 2003 by The Stationery Office.

There is evidence that WTE are being illegally poisoned:

The white-tailed sea eagle, was found together with the carcass of a lamb at a farm near Kilmelford, about 20km south of Oban.
Strathclyde Police said chemicals were recovered in the area last Friday - two days after the bird was found - which have been sent for analysis.
The find follows the discovery of a poisoned golden eagle near the same farm in February this year and a similar find in the area four years ago.

Removing the WTE's specialist diet of fish and seabirds, especially in the breeding season, will result in competion and reduction in the total number of pairs of eagles in Scotland

In the UK the golden eagle and white-tailed eagle live in mutually exclusive home-ranges, unlike in Norway, where the two species can readily coexist. The diets of the two species are very similar, and there is prominent competition for food between the species. When in direct competition for carcasses in the winter, golden eagles are strongly dominant over white-tailed eagles. Being stronger fliers, golden eagles also prevail in aerial conflicts. However, despite being inferior in direct competition, white-tailed eagle is overall the dominant species of the two, and can oust golden eagles from their home ranges. They are more tenacious, have a wider diet and can survive on less food than the golden eagle. Competition for nest sites is unlikely to be important, since white-tailed eagles nest preferentially in trees and golden eagles on cliff ledges. The great similarity in the diet and the apparent inability of the two eagles to coexist in western Scotland has been brought about by several centuries of deforestation and overgrazing, which has impoverished and degraded the habitat, reducing its ability to support higher densities of these top predators.

I maintain that climate change is more likely to result in the extirpation of eagles in Scotland than collision with windfarms.

 

[Tyke]

WTE populations are soaring, despite climate change...

But of course the real question is, what would be their population without climate change?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/animals/features/328feature1.shtml

Now did someone mention sand eels?

Wonderfull article-a joy to read

Colin

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Isn't burning the heather part of the local land managementm, what are the regulation concerning that?

Does anyone know for sure that it has occurred. The only reference I can find are on Mark's website and he now seems rather doubtful.

9.75. Table 9.7 suggests that productivity within the Eisgein Estate has declined recently. There are four years for which we have good coverage across the whole of Lewis and Harris: 1982, 1992, 2003 and
2004. During these years the numbers of young fledged per recorded range were 0.37/0.43;
0.37/0.13; 0/0.45 and 0.27/0.36 (Eisgein ranges / Rest of Lewis and Harris). Historically, the Eisgein
birds appear to have been more productive. However, two of the less productive, more remote,
Eisgein ranges do not appear to have been surveyed in 1982 and 1992. Productivity on the rest of
Lewis and Harris was also reduced over this earlier period by persecution, which continues to the
current day. In 2004 more than 10% of the ranges, in which eggs were laid, were subject to thefts or burning of the nest, possibly leading to the loss of two young (assuming a constant ratio of fledging to egg laying).


This is an excerpt from the Eishken environmental statement. This chapter 9 on birds weighs 35.6 megas. Anybody wants it?



Mark :gn:

 

[Jane Turner]

Isn't the average productivity of WTE 0.67 per nest. I'm apart from my books just now.

 

[Edward woodwood]

current day. In 2004 more than 10% of the ranges, in which eggs were laid, were subject to thefts or burning of the nest, possibly leading to the loss of two young (assuming a constant ratio of fledging to egg laying). [/I]


This is an excerpt from the Eishken environmental statement. This chapter 9 on birds weighs 35.6 megas. Anybody wants it?



Mark :gn:

yeah

but you wrote it as if there was a connection to the wind farm being built

you shameless man

the govt doesn't tell us any lies about GW - they've been almost shy of it fanything... more conspiracies eh... see a shrink mate! :hi:

Tim - turbine hugger and global warmer

oh yeah i'm well known for believing politicians! :-C

 

[Mark Duchamp]

Mark - There is evidence that a similar species has changed its feeding habits remarkably in response to a collapse in Cod numbers. See papers I listed a few pages back.

If you had paid attention to Colin's excellent post # 362, you would have noticed that WTE's feed on shallow water fish. Cod is pelagic.
........
...

There is evidence that WTE's are eating lambs:

They do that everywhere, not only in Scotland. Generally, they do it when the lamb is still-born. Sheperds invariably claim the contrary: it is to their advantage when claiming compensation.

Crows and ravens peck the eyes of new-born lambs if they have a chance, then attack the anus and the genitals. Eagles sometimes take advantage of that situation.

About 15% of golden eagles' diet on Lewis consist of corvids. Don't know about WTE's, but there is a fair chance they catch corvids too. Plenty of them around in Scotland.
...............
..........

Removing the WTE's specialist diet of fish and seabirds, especially in the breeding season, will result in competion and reduction in the total number of pairs of eagles in Scotland.

This is in contradiction with the excerpt you quoted yourself from the RSPB:

"They are more tenacious, have a wider diet and can survive on less food than the golden eagle."

So I advise you read more carefully what you are quoting.
...........
.....

I maintain that climate change is more likely to result in the extirpation of eagles in Scotland than collision with windfarms.

As the RSPB says, they have a varied diet. So this kills your "specialist diet" argument. And as the BLI study quoted by Colin says, they eat shallow-water fish: so that kills your "cod" argument.

Besides, if they were ever starving, the RSPB would put out food for them. You don't think they would let them die, do you? And if not the RSPB, the tourist bureaus would put out dead sheep or deer for them. Plenty of these around in Scotland, unless you claim that GW will end up with them too?

Last but not least, windfarms will have no influence on global warming whatsoever. So why kill the eagles for nothing? And why desacrate the beautiful Scottish wilderness in the process? - for nothing at all, except yet another human folly (Scotland already had an erroneous forestry policy, remember?). - So get real!


Mark :gn: