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The full name of "Charles M. N. White" (2 Viewers)

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Of course this could be the case. Most 'Arty' people couldn't care less about birds ...

But it doesn't change the fact that we're missing the (last) piece/connection between Kathleen (the Painter/Artist) and "our guy" C. M. N. White.


Well-known member
Kathleen, Charles and Geoffrey were brothers and sister (attached 1939 England and Wales Register record)

Name: Kathleen Alicia Annette White
Birth: 26 Apr 1922 Preston, Lancs
Death Date: 7 Jan 1987
Death Place: Alveston Stratford upon Avon

NAME: Geoffrey Noel Platts White
Birth: 23 Aug 1918 Preston, Lancs
DEATH DATE: 03/03/1987
DEATH PLACE: St Anne On Sea, Lancs

Charles Snr married Louie E Newton in 1913 (yes that is spelt correctly!)



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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Thanks Paul, you sure deliver! :t:

Did you as well find a (matching) record of the Parents of "our guy", C. M. N. White ("born in Preston, Lancashire, on 30 August 1914, ...")?

If Charles [Sr] and Louie married in 1913, he seems to have been their first born child/son ...


PS. Now I'm very close to delete that 'possibly/probably' part (on Kathleen)! ;)

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Mike, regarding the order of given names (or forenames), I would use (and I am writing) it the way it was written in the Obituary: CHARLES MATTHEW NEWTON WHITE, (see post #1, link in #2), or here, alt. here, as well as in several Papers written by himself, see for example/s; here.

I see no reason to doubt Mr White himself. ;)

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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Just a question. Is ''Phoeniculus granti Neumann 1903 named after him? I think it was per old key, but I am not 100% convinced about this claim. Why not any of the other Grants?
Quick one ... (even if a bit odd in Mr. White's thread) ;)

granti as in:
• Grant's (Violet) Woodhoopoe Phoeniculus (damarensis) granti NEUMANN 1903, as "Irrisor damarensis granti"

And note; I haven't checked this certain bird in any depth what-so-ever (simply as this bird is kenyaskratthärfågel in Swedish, which in English would be 'Kenya Laughing/Laughter hoopoe'), but I tend to agree; why not William Robert Ogilvie-Grant (1863–1924), he's mentioned repeatedly in the same Journal ...

Holotype (here), of little use: "Collected and presented by F. J. Jackson"

Though; also note that "Irrisor damarensis" (today's Violet Woodhoopoe Phoeniculus damarensis) was described two years earlier, by Ogilvie-Grant (in 1901), in a "review of the genus Irrisor, ..." (here), which I think would point somewhat in his favour.

For what it's worth.

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laurent raty
CHB Grant used this name in print in 1915 in Ibis: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/8750067, in a paper where he described a collection of birds from British East African and Uganda, made by WP Lowe at the request of GS Cozens; Grant also provided a short description of the bird there. As a result, his name ended up associated to this bird in some subsequent works, e.g. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/8764528, https://books.google.com/books?id=_NFGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA391.

Could this (apparently fortuitous) association be the origin of the eponymic claim ?

He did not claim that the bird was named after him. In his obituary in Ibis (free at https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1474-919X.1958.tb08796.x ), I don't really see anything suggesting that, in 1903, he might have been famous enough to have a German worker name a bird after him, despite apparently not being involved in the finding. (At this time, CHB Grant had basically been a student, a taxidermist at NHM, and a soldier in the S African war who also had some collecting activities. It seems he did not start publishing his own ornithological works before 1911.)

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Swedish Wikipedia (here, last edited 1 March, 2019) says that this bird's scientific name honours "William Robert Ogilvie-Grant (1863-1924)", with reference to the dear old HBW (Alive) Key (of "2016").

For what it's worth ...


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