The shooting industry - why is it tolerated? (1 Viewer)

[Mike Price]

The argument is going around in circles, scientific proof is not enough for some people, they have an ideal world in mind where everything is rosey, back in the real world where economics rule all the decisions that are being made my final note on the matter is that as so much of your heather moorland is listed as Sites of Special Scientific Interest you would think that more would be done to try encourage gamekeepers to help protect the raptors, here's another out of box idea that probably been thought of and dismissed for 1000's of reasons why not pay the estates if/when raptor breeding is successful on their land, and when species have adequately recovered why not set a density ceiling on them so that some balance can be achieved.
It seems that common sense is sometimes not so common.

 

[Adam W]

The argument is going around in circles, scientific proof is not enough for some people, they have an ideal world in mind where everything is rosey, back in the real world where economics rule all the decisions that are being made my final note on the matter is that as so much of your heather moorland is listed as Sites of Special Scientific Interest you would think that more would be done to try encourage gamekeepers to help protect the raptors, here's another out of box idea that probably been thought of and dismissed for 1000's of reasons why not pay the estates if/when raptor breeding is successful on their land, and when species have adequately recovered why not set a density ceiling on them so that some balance can be achieved.
It seems that common sense is sometimes not so common.

That actually sounds like a very good idea but as you say common sense is nowhere near common enough.

I guess people will quite rightly argue that we shouldnt need incentives like that to stop people from breaking the law but non the less it sounds a good idea that might just work.

 

[Mike Price]

It would be cheaper than trying to manage the moorlands yourself I am sure

 

[kristoffer]

I wonder how you can shoot those that you love.

I am one of 'the others' on the forum that love and watch birds.

 

[karpman]

Hey CC,

I was just trying to get my point across that banning something anything over a few deranged morons is in it's self stupid.

Kristoffer a powerful twist of a statement, I have always enjoyed watching wildlife and am in general pro conservation, I also like to take part in many activities including birdwatching.

Your statement is provocative and not sensible as there is no answer that you won't pick to bits.

karpman

 

[kristoffer]

I fail to see how you can think that it is not sensible since it is a fact that hunters shoot birds.

Your statement is provocative and not sensible as there is no answer that you won't pick to bits.

karpman

 

[Adam W]

I wonder how you can shoot those that you love.

I've never said it was an easy thing to understand quite the opposite infact but that doesnt make it wrong.
Anybody who actually knows me couldnt possibly doubt my love of birds and indeed wildlife in general.

 

[Adam W]

I fail to see how you can think that it is not sensible since it is a fact that hunters shoot birds.

I think the point Karpman is making is that i cant give an answer that you wont criticise me for, if i say i do love them but also shoot them you'll just say that impossible therefore i musnt love them but i cant say i dont love them or i dont shoot them because both would be lies and would contradict eveything i've ever said on the subject so it was a now win question for me.

 

[kristoffer]

The contradiction between your apparent love for nature and birds and your actual passion for shooting animals is now more obvious.

 

[captaincarot]

what exactly are shooters doing to stop the persecution?

when was the last shoot which persecutes raptors for examlpe boycotted by shooters because of their actions?

i'm still waiting for answers from any of the pro shooting lobby to either of these questions.

i will also add when was the last agme keeper tuned in by a shooter for performing these acts of persecution.

as these things have not happened then we can only assume that shooters actually actively support this persecution despite protestations to the contrary.

 

[bkrownd]

I like chocolate

 

[Adam W]

The contradiction between your apparent love for nature and birds and your actual passion for shooting animals is now more obvious.

Now do you see what we meant about it being a pointless question because whatever i said you we criticise me for?

How does me saying that i do love birds and nobody that nows me would possibly try and deny that make you think that the, in your opinion 'contradiction' here is even more apparent?

 

[Adam W]

i'm still waiting for answers from any of the pro shooting lobby to either of these questions.

i will also add when was the last agme keeper tuned in by a shooter for performing these acts of persecution.

as these things have not happened then we can only assume that shooters actually actively support this persecution despite protestations to the contrary.

These things have happened and you most certainly cannot assume we shooters support this type of behavior,i dont know any exact details but i read about this happening not so long ago possibly in the RSPB birds magazine i think.A gamekeeper repoted a land owner and his fellow keepers who wanted him to kill raptors he was sacked and the keeper that replaced him also reported them for the same reasons at which point action was taken against the guilty parties.

You should also take into consideration that many shooters like myself do not have anything to do with large scale organised shoots where these problems occur so to criticise all of us is ridiculous.

I and many fellow shooters are totally against these things happening but we can hardly boycott shoots we dont use to start with and what makes you think that people using these shoots would actually be aware if raptors had been killed there?
I'm also sure many people will have refused to use shoots where they have found out about such problems but theres no reason why any of us would be aware of that its not as though it would be made public knowledge nobody other than the individuals involved would know about it.

 

[Veracocha]

Adam W, why are you responding to these people?, you don't have to explain yourself. They are not listening, they never will. Carry on enjoying your shooting.

 

[Mike Price]

From what I have seen over the last 12 months it is because some people maintain these extreme points of view that there is never any progress made.

No-one seems to listen to the majority in the middle who are asking for compromise, all the time is spent arguing with people who either want all predators dead or all shooting stopped.

On the whole and from what I have spent the time to read and learn about our uplands, the managed moors are more successful for the a lot of wildlife than the unmanaged moors, the cost of that moor management is prohibitive without an income from the land.

Any person who cannot accept compromise is part of the problem in my honest opinion.

My last words on this subject as it got boring ages ago.

Regards

Mike

 

[Adam W]

Adam W, why are you responding to these people?, you don't have to explain yourself. They are not listening, they never will. Carry on enjoying your shooting.

A very good idea i think i might just do that.

 

[kristoffer]

Yes, go on and shoot birds without listening to the criticism. But if you carry on that choice of life, perhaps you should find another forum for your hobby? I assume there are plenty of forums for hunters.

 

[Adam W]

Yes, go on and shoot birds without listening to the criticism. But if you carry on that choice of life, perhaps you should find another forum for your hobby? I assume there are plenty of forums for hunters.

I dare say there are but i'm not a member of any of them, was i mistaken in thinking that this is a forum suitable for a birdwatcher,photographer and wildlife artist such as myself?

By the way i've listened to all of the criticism hence the reason i've replied to all of it, i just dont happen to agree with it much as you dont agree with my criticism of you.

 

[Veracocha]

Yes, go on and shoot birds without listening to the criticism. But if you carry on that choice of life, perhaps you should find another forum for your hobby? I assume there are plenty of forums for hunters.

Perhaps you need to accept that this forum is open to hunters & non-hunters alike, if you can't accept that tough.

 

[deboo]

Perhaps you need to accept that this forum is open to hunters & non-hunters alike, if you can't accept that tough.

Birdforum -'the forum for wild birds and birding'

This forum is open to all and that is certainly a jolly good thing. We get to read about others' perspectives. But don't make out that by chipping in here you are doing me a favour eh?
If you want to go out and kill something, I guess that is your prerogative, but don't dress it up. There are 60,000+ members on BF, what percentage of these members do you imagine are pro shooting/murder? >1% at tops? If there was one good reason for you killing another living creature for 'sport' or 'enjoyment' or 'love of the creature(bizarre???)' or 'the thrill of the chase' then the 60,000 of us would be more than willing to read, learn and understand. But imho there isn't. So tough **** to you eh? Go and brag about it elsewhere, cos the mustard ain't cut on my side of these internets.

dave...