The shooting industry - why is it tolerated? (1 Viewer)

[Jacana]

what exactly are shooters doing to stop the persecution?

when was the last shoot which persecutes raptors for examlpe boycotted by shooters because of their actions?

Whilst I can't answer these questions specifically I can give you an example related to me by my parents who witness this at the shoot I mentioned earlier.

One of the guns on a drive too no consideration over what he was shooting at, apart from the pheasants and woodcock that were flying over he also shot at a GSW, Mistle Thrush and a Sparrowhawk (fortunately missing all three as well as the legal game!). At the end of the drive, the owner of the shoot confronted the said gun, and threw him off the site (bearing in mind that he would have paid a lot of money to shoot there that day).

There are always going to be bad eggs in every community, but why tar everyone with the same brush?

 

[Jacana]

Yes, go on and shoot birds without listening to the criticism. But if you carry on that choice of life, perhaps you should find another forum for your hobby? I assume there are plenty of forums for hunters.

I believe Adam has answered and listened to every bit of critisism you've thrown at him, without provocationand in a much calmer manner than you have throughout this thread.

 

[Adam W]

s

Birdforum -'the forum for wild birds and birding'

This forum is open to all and that is certainly a jolly good thing. We get to read about others' perspectives. But don't make out that by chipping in here you are doing me a favour eh?
If you want to go out and kill something, I guess that is your prerogative, but don't dress it up. There are 60,000+ members on BF, what percentage of these members do you imagine are pro shooting/murder? >1% at tops? If there was one good reason for you killing another living creature for 'sport' or 'enjoyment' or 'love of the creature(bizarre???)' or 'the thrill of the chase' then the 60,000 of us would be more than willing to read, learn and understand. But imho there isn't. So tough **** to you eh? Go and brag about it elsewhere, cos the mustard ain't cut on my side of these internets.

dave...

I think you are drastically mistaken if you think that <1% of BF members are pro shooting, there will be far more than that who actually shoot nevermind the quite large number of people who dont shoot maybe dont even really like it but but still have some pro shooting views.


I think your comment is rather an over reaction to the previous comment and swearing is hardly required is it?

 

[Jacana]

Birdforum -'the forum for wild birds and birding'

This forum is open to all and that is certainly a jolly good thing. We get to read about others' perspectives. But don't make out that by chipping in here you are doing me a favour eh?
If you want to go out and kill something, I guess that is your prerogative, but don't dress it up. There are 60,000+ members on BF, what percentage of these members do you imagine are pro shooting/murder? >1% at tops? If there was one good reason for you killing another living creature for 'sport' or 'enjoyment' or 'love of the creature(bizarre???)' or 'the thrill of the chase' then the 60,000 of us would be more than willing to read, learn and understand. But imho there isn't. So tough **** to you eh? Go and brag about it elsewhere, cos the mustard ain't cut on my side of these internets.

dave...

I may be wrong, but I think Veracocha has said that s/he doesn't hunt.

 

[Veracocha]

Birdforum -'the forum for wild birds and birding'

This forum is open to all and that is certainly a jolly good thing. We get to read about others' perspectives. But don't make out that by chipping in here you are doing me a favour eh?
If you want to go out and kill something, I guess that is your prerogative, but don't dress it up. There are 60,000+ members on BF, what percentage of these members do you imagine are pro shooting/murder? >1% at tops? If there was one good reason for you killing another living creature for 'sport' or 'enjoyment' or 'love of the creature(bizarre???)' or 'the thrill of the chase' then the 60,000 of us would be more than willing to read, learn and understand. But imho there isn't. So tough **** to you eh? Go and brag about it elsewhere, cos the mustard ain't cut on my side of these internets.

dave...

Brilliant, Yes, when bad language pops up you know when their argument fails. If you had bothered to read the thread you can see that I am not a shooter, I don't kill birds of any sort and therefore have nothing to brag about. I respect others lifestyles and refuse to tell someone how to live their life.

 

[ceasar]

Some people are incapable of compromising. It is a waste of time reasoning with them but you have to take them seriously. The history of the 20th century is full of them. Many of them ruled nations: To their ruination.
Bob

 

[kristoffer]

It feels a bit insulting that you compare me with some dictator just because I don´t think that hunting has a place on Birdforum. Am I not entitled to this view without having to endure posts like this one?

Some people are incapable of compromising. It is a waste of time reasoning with them but you have to take them seriously. The history of the 20th century is full of them. Many of them ruled nations: To their ruination.
Bob

 

[Veracocha]

Do you find it disrespectful to discuss hunting yes or no on a forum? If your hunting friends get offended by this thread, they must be very sensitive then. I think this is quite respectful to both sides, can a discussion be more civil?

Yes, go on and shoot birds without listening to the criticism. But if you carry on that choice of life, perhaps you should find another forum for your hobby? I assume there are plenty of forums for hunters.

Hmmm!!

 

[fugl]

How much longer, O Lord? Can there possibly be anything new to say on this subject?

 

[deboo]

Brilliant, Yes, when bad language pops up you know when their argument fails. If you had bothered to read the thread you can see that I am not a shooter, I don't kill birds of any sort and therefore have nothing to brag about. I respect others lifestyles and refuse to tell someone how to live their life.

My argument fails because of a sh*t? Haw Haw!

So you don't really care that shooting passage birds in Malta/Italy/Egypt etc is wrong? Or perhaps, closer to home, the eradication of Hen Harriers on English moorland? That's just lifestyle choices eh? Unbelievable!
Do you ever consider what the 'lifestyle choices' are for the creatures that get shot at? Fly as fast as you can and ******* hope it's not you. That's some life.

profane dave...

 

[Keith Dickinson]

Personally I cannot see the enjoyment in shooting, but it isn't illegal so I tolerate it. My neighbour is a shooter, he understands that I can't enjoy his sport just as I understand why he doesn't want to come birding with me.
Is there any point in constantly sniping at each other in threads like this, please let's not clog up bandwidth with this sort of thing.

 

[joannec]

Personally I cannot see the enjoyment in shooting, but it isn't illegal so I tolerate it. My neighbour is a shooter, he understands that I can't enjoy his sport just as I understand why he doesn't want to come birding with me.
Is there any point in constantly sniping at each other in threads like this, please let's not clog up bandwidth with this sort of thing.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Veracocha]

My argument fails because of a sh*t? Haw Haw!

So you don't really care that shooting passage birds in Malta/Italy/Egypt etc is wrong? Or perhaps, closer to home, the eradication of Hen Harriers on English moorland? That's just lifestyle choices eh? Unbelievable!
Do you ever consider what the 'lifestyle choices' are for the creatures that get shot at? Fly as fast as you can and ******* hope it's not you. That's some life.

profane dave...

Well actually I do, that's why I signed a petition against the illegal activities of the Maltese shooters. I have no issues with shooters acting within the law.

 

[deboo]

Personally I cannot see the enjoyment in shooting, but it isn't illegal so I tolerate it. My neighbour is a shooter, he understands that I can't enjoy his sport just as I understand why he doesn't want to come birding with me.
Is there any point in constantly sniping at each other in threads like this, please let's not clog up bandwidth with this sort of thing.

Fair point Keith,

But, it's threads like these that make BF interesting. I enjoy seeing passion and debate on this forum. We all have opinions and it's good that we can express them once in a while. Just some opinions are better than others
Although 'clogging up bandwidth' seems a pretty weak justification to stop, considering that poxy word ass thread in RF eh?

cheers!

dave...

 

[Jos Stratford]

I signed a petition against the illegal activities of the Maltese shooters. I have no issues with shooters acting within the law.

What about actions that are similar to those in Malta that are not breaking the relevant national laws (due to weak laws in certain nations)? Would you not agree that sometimes there does need to be issues with shooters acting within the law and that laws need to be tightened? (This is not hinting at laws in in the UK.)

 

[Keith Dickinson]

Maybe clogging bandwidth are the wrong words - is it better to say I'm f***ing bored of seeing f***ing 'shooters' at the top of the list all the time I log on, oh [email protected] I swore!

 

[Veracocha]

What about actions that are similar to those in Malta that are not breaking the relevant national laws (due to weak laws in certain nations)? Would you not agree that sometimes there does need to be issues with shooters acting within the law and that laws need to be tightened? (This is not hinting at laws in in the UK.)

Absolutely. I am not blind to the uneccesary cruelty that takes place from a minority of shooters & keepers. Effective killing distances is one area that I feel needs tightening up. I once remonstrated with a wildfowler who shot at geese at a ridiculous distance on the Solway; he was in the same hotel (Powfoot) and once his mates heard the full story they gave him a right going over. I went toe to toe with a keeper who I witnessed brutalise a dog on the back of his pick-up. I told the shoot owner I would report him, he took it very seriously, word soon got out and his reputation was blackened. I fell out with my life-long friend when I saw him use barbed wire to extract a squirrel from a tree hole. That incident has stayed with him ever since.

In all of these instances the actions of a few have discredited their sport, but on each occasion these miscreants have been dealt with from within their communities. The more we educate those that do care and behave responsibly the sooner we will eradicate the cruelty. If we dictate how and when then we will never reach a comprimise.

 

[Jos Stratford]

In all of these instances the actions of a few have discredited their sport, but on each occasion these miscreants have been dealt with from within their communities.

If this truly became the widespread norm, I suppose many of the criticisms (at a UK level) would fall away. The persecution of raptors will forever stain the image of shooting, even if much of it actually has little or nothing to do with wildfowling. The sooner more gamekeepers actually begin to report the actions of others, the better. Also, though views differ amongst us how it could be implemented, the sooner an effective system is implemented to weed out those that order/allow on their land illegal persecution, the better for all of us.

 

[Veracocha]

If this truly became the widespread norm, I suppose many of the criticisms (at a UK level) would fall away. The persecution of raptors will forever stain the image of shooting, even if much of it actually has little or nothing to do with wildfowling. The sooner more gamekeepers actually begin to report the actions of others, the better. Also, though views differ amongst us how it could be implemented, the sooner an effective system is implemented to weed out those that order/allow on their land illegal persecution, the better for all of us.

I would like to see greater incentives (financial) for reporting these keepers & landowners. Money talks.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

If this truly became the widespread norm, I suppose many of the criticisms (at a UK level) would fall away. The persecution of raptors will forever stain the image of shooting, even if much of it actually has little or nothing to do with wildfowling. The sooner more gamekeepers actually begin to report the actions of others, the better. Also, though views differ amongst us how it could be implemented, the sooner an effective system is implemented to weed out those that order/allow on their land illegal persecution, the better for all of us.

This is true, Jos, but would it make the news? A dead raptor makes better headlines and sells more copy than a shooter getting kicked off a shoot, or even prosecuted.

Both happen, but which gets reported?

And even then the "righteous" would say it all should be banned anyway. This thread stands as an example of that. Shooters can do no right in the eyes of the bigots.