The shooting industry - why is it tolerated? (1 Viewer)

[captaincarot]

Sorry...I digress.
And I'm with fugl on hunter shot meat....much better for us. Oddly enough, some of oHopefully there's no lead shot if he's shooting anything larger than a pellet gun.
We are SUPPOSED to be using environmentally friendly shot on game animals....even though we allow fishing weights made of lead (my pet peave). .

this is actually just about the exact opposite of the case in britain lead is banned in angling in any of the sizes that birds might actually ingest the ban is enforced by law but was actually voluntarily introduced by the anglers.

shooters can still use lead if they want to

 

[karpman]

Hey johnners,

I feel and understand your passion, Some of your rants are sensible others unfounded.
I enjoyed shooting for various reasons, The exhilaration and adrenalin it caused was a real buzz for sure, I also enjoyed working with and around dogs and the social aspect. I eat meat also and enjoy game as much as anything else.
I did not enjoy shooting because it was manly, The statement is also rather sexist to any women who shoot.

This thread will fizzle out they always do it has been covered many times and will continue to be covered for a long time to come, The thread was started to get a bit of debate and passion fueling in people these subjects always do.

I appreciate your stance and input but, Am a little stuck on the caveman part? They had guns!:-O:t:

soon back to something less interesting like work:C

karpman

 

[Veracocha]

The real reasons as to why shooting (deer and birds) persists and is tolerated in this country are a) it's traditional and b) it's a cash crop upon land which cannot support a profit otherwise. Education and the full weight of the law are the main tools to use against ignorant and unfeeling gamekeepers who persist in their Victorian practices.

Those who support shooting per se and its ethics because it's a manly, hunting thing should step forward out of the Stone age - the 'I've got a bigger club than you' philosophy is rather pathetic in modern society, don't you think?

Karpman's very much in error if he thinks the Ban Shooting thread will 'fizzle out'. Yes, it's controversial; yes, it's emotive; yes, it's polarizing - but no, as long as there's breath in my body, I will always rail against illegal, unnecessary killing of raptors on moors - or anywhere else, for that matter.

And with emotive silly arguments from the pro-ban camp like this I expect the debate will go on forever. I see now why I side with the shooters.

 

[Amarillo]

Well, apologies for raising something that has already been done to death!

I certainly agree with many here that sustainable hunting is entirely compatable with (and sometimes necessary for) conservation and I guess the overall conservation benefits outweigh the negatives

 

[kristoffer]

So you side with hunters because of "silly arguments?" So if I found an even more silly hunter with very silly arguments, you would change side? That´s a really poor way of deciding what's right and wrong in the world.

And with emotive silly arguments from the pro-ban camp like this I expect the debate will go on forever. I see now why I side with the shooters.

 

[Veracocha]

So you side with hunters because of "silly arguments?" So if I found an even more silly hunter with very silly arguments, you would change side? That´s a really poor way of deciding what's right and wrong in the world.

Try me.

And there you go again, telling me how I should behave based on your standards.

 

[kristoffer]

No, in this case I was just pointing out the obvious flaws in your reasoning. If you like I can also give you hints on how to behave, based on my standards but I suppose it´s not appreciated.

Try me.

And there you go again, telling me how I should behave based on your standards.

 

[Formatted]

Or is it simply a case of too many important and influential people that would be upset by a clampdown?

Thats really quite a ignorant point of view to take!

The UK shooting industry of not just Deer but birds generates upwards 100+ Million each year, it creates hundreds of jobs for many people that couldn't work in another industry. It is also a huge export, many "rich" stock brokers / bankers come to the UK to shoot. The UK has a massive balance of payments deficit and we shouldn't further hamper the efforts to correct this deficit.

Much like fox hunting, it would be utterly moronic to try and ban it!

I haven't even started on the huge historical loss to the country that banning hunting would bring!

 

[Veracocha]

No, in this case I was just pointing out the obvious flaws in your reasoning. If you like I can also give you hints on how to behave, based on my standards but I suppose it´s not appreciated.

No don't, very happy with my own standards.

 

[matt2499]

The argument of meat eating is ridiculous. So are you saying that all shooters eat what they kill? Because I have found several times in Nottinghamshire, shallow graves full with dozens of Partridges and Pheasants.
To me, that makes it clear that these people really just enjoy killing and nothing else.

 

[Adam W]

The argument of meat eating is ridiculous. So are you saying that all shooters eat what they kill? Because I have found several times in Nottinghamshire, shallow graves full with dozens of Partridges and Pheasants.
To me, that makes it clear that these people really just enjoy killing and nothing else.

I hope when you say 'these people' you are not including me or 99% of shooters for that matter.

 

[fugl]

The argument of meat eating is ridiculous. So are you saying that all shooters eat what they kill? Because I have found several times in Nottinghamshire, shallow graves full with dozens of Partridges and Pheasants.
To me, that makes it clear that these people really just enjoy killing and nothing else.

Some do, some don’t. The sad fact is that in wealthy countries food of all kinds is routinely wasted. Just consider all the uneaten food that gets thrown away at restaurants.

 

[karpman]

The argument of meat eating is ridiculous. So are you saying that all shooters eat what they kill? Because I have found several times in Nottinghamshire, shallow graves full with dozens of Partridges and Pheasants.
To me, that makes it clear that these people really just enjoy killing and nothing else.

Indeed, I already outlined why i enjoyed shooting in a earlier post.
Not every bird is eaten but this pales in comparison to food wasted by large supermarkets, I have still yet to hear through out this whole 4 pages reason to ban shooting other than "it's not nice and i don't like it".

I bought 2 chickens which were a snifter from going into the landfill from the store up the road, Just give me good reason to ban it and i am on your side at the moment it seems there is no valid to have a complete shooting ban.
I also enjoyed beating nearly as much as i did the actual shooting nowdays i enjoy Birdwatching and all the joys it has bought me.:t:

Anyhow i have blighted this thread enough, Thats the last from me honestly!

Karpman

Edit: tends to be the corporate days out were birds go to waste as often they don't require any, Some people like to shoot but don't like the preparation of the meat afterwards, Me i enjoy this and the cooking nearly as much!

 

[kristoffer]

It is no reason to hunt just because supermarkets waste tons of meat. Just because one thing is bad, nothing gets better by doing another bad thing.

 

[captaincarot]

Thats really quite a ignorant point of view to take!

The UK shooting industry of not just Deer but birds generates upwards 100+ Million each year, it creates hundreds of jobs for many people that couldn't work in another industry. It is also a huge export, many "rich" stock brokers / bankers come to the UK to shoot. The UK has a massive balance of payments deficit and we shouldn't further hamper the efforts to correct this deficit.

Much like fox hunting, it would be utterly moronic to try and ban it!

I haven't even started on the huge historical loss to the country that banning hunting would bring!

that would be just like the miners and steel workes that couldn't work in another industry then would it? and 100 million is pennies compared with the sums of money those now dead industries used to generate. it's only 10% of what angling generates per annum now. so this is not an argument to support retention of an industry that is actively working towards the extinction of some of our native species.
the people who work witin that industry would have to find work elsewhere in other industries. just like the miners and steelworkers did

 

[kristoffer]

Once upon a time lots of people delivered ice home to people since no one had a fridge. Guess what, they found another job.

 

[karpman]

Once upon a time lots of people delivered ice home to people since no one had a fridge. Guess what, they found another job.

This country has no jobs unemployment has risen again.
Shooting has nothing to do with supermarkets wasting meat it was just to make a point on waste.

CC how is shooting actively working towards extinction of some of our species?
I am at a total loss as to why this is surely habitat destruction is the main factor here..
Shooting keeps these habitats open and available for birds and other wildlife, People acting outside of the law are threatening rare and endangered species not shooting.

Times are changing and people are becoming more aware of there surroundings and this is only for the greater good, And i am still yet to hear reasonable argument as why shooting should be banned!

Anyhow after shooting ya think angling will be left alone, You are sadly mistaken my friend that will be the next bloodsport that will get banned first game then sea and then coarse! It's a slippery slope and a no brainer!

Education is what is needed here, Oh and by the way i fish also game and carp mostly nowdays with some sea.

cheers
karpman

 

[kristoffer]

You keep repeating that you need reasonable arguments to why shooting should be banned without answering my critique and you lack any good arguments to why it should be allowed, other then that it´s funny to shoot birds and that it employs lots of people. Weak arguments in the grand scheme. Also you have left this thread about five times now?

 

[Adam W]

you lack any good arguments to why it should be allowed, other then that it´s funny to shoot birds

When and where has anybody ever suggested it funny to shoot birds?

Karpamn is right, nobody has come up good with a reason to ban shooting other than the fact they personally dont like it.

Its not for us to have to produce good reasons why it should still be allowed,millions of people have been shooting for hundreds of years the only reason for that to stop is if people can give good enough reasons to stop it which as Karpman keeps saying nobody has.

 

[karpman]

You keep repeating that you need reasonable arguments to why shooting should be banned without answering my critique and you lack any good arguments to why it should be allowed, other then that it´s funny to shoot birds and that it employs lots of people. Weak arguments in the grand scheme. Also you have left this thread about five times now?

Yeah i'm off for sure! You keep dragging me back, I'm like an addict to this thread and were getting no were fast.

At least i am trying to be objective other than just plain smarmy providing as much info and insight into the shooting world as i can, And lets not forget this was started to ban shooting:-O
Plenty of reasons have been established why not to ban it, Would be bad for the economy and environment.

So lets pretend for a moment we do get shooting banned then what?
I can't imagine it so help me out here!:-O

cheers for interesting debate think now i will stay around a little longer:t:
Just for the record once more i don't intend to offend or upset anyone with my views or beliefs just trying to be honest and a matter a fact about things, I have even outlined my reasons why i like shooting. We off course no why you don't things die..

karpmanB