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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jos Stratford" data-source="post: 1405897" data-attributes="member: 12449">Given there is nothing natural about suburbia, the issue on whether or not cat populations would or would not be sustainable in a wild state is irrelevant. As pointed out by Capercaillie's post, the populations of almost all birds in suburban setting are actually increasing, thus the presence of cats (and Magpies) is obviously factored in by the populations and appears to have no adverse effect. Of the species in decline, there still exists no credible evidence that cats are responsible.The 'natural system', as defined by your opening definition, must include all the elements in it, be they limiting factors or the opposite - for suburbia, this must include cars, peanut feeders, cats, nestboxes, decking, berry bushes, etc, etc. The combinations of these are the controlling elements of the suburban natural system - and wildlife, by and large, is doing well by it. If we wish to meddle in it, we can equally argue the Blue Tit populations are artificially high too - a true wild state population would not spend most of the winter hanging on alien food materials encased in metal and polymers (frequently known as peanut feeders).</blockquote>