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The various Mr. Verreaux's and their Birds … (2 Viewers)

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
There is quite a few Birds commemorating Verreaux and there is quite a few Messieurs Verreaux involved …

The Verreaux's was French travelers, explorers and collectors, and on top of that; successful Natural history dealers – that, from their shop in Paris, traded with just about every sort of Naturalia and ethnological items (… as well as stuffed Human beings!)

There were at least three brothers and their respective Sons involved working in this their lucrative business; and they were as follows:
Jules Pierre Verreaux (1807/8?–1873)
Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810–1868)
Joseph Alexis Verreaux (xxxx –1868?),
… and on top of that some, at least two, different contribuant Sons – but so far I haven´t checked the Sons (and, this far, I don´t know if I ever will have to).

These different Mr. Verreaux's is commemorated, either singularly or combined, either in the Common English names or in the Scientific names of various taxa, as in example the following Birds (there are even more, both birds and others!) – without considering the current or valid taxonomical status:

● Verreaux's Eagle Aquila verreauxii LESSON 1831 a k a "Verreauxs' Eagle"
● Mouse-colored Sunbird (Cinnyris/Nectarinia) Cyanomitra veroxii SMITH 1831
● Pink-throated Twinspot Hypargos margaritatus STRICKLAND 1844 a k a " Rosy" Twinspot" or "Verreaux's Twinspot"
● White-tipped Dove (Engyptila) Leptotila verreauxi BONAPARTE 1855 a k a "Verreaux's Dove"
● Verreaux's Batis Batis minima VERREAUX & VERREAUX 1855 a k a "Verreaux’s Puff-back Flycatcher" or "Gabon Batis"
● Verreaux's Coua Coua verreauxi GRANDIDIER 1867 a k a "Verreaux's Coucal"
● Verreaux's Monal-partridge Tetraophasis obscurus VERREAUX 1869 a k a or "Verreaux's Pheasant-grouse" or "Chestnut-throated Partridge"
● Streaked Fantail Rhipidura verreauxi MARIÉ 1870
● Spectacled Fulvetta (Fulvetta) Alcippe ruficapilla VERREAUX 1870 a k a Verreaux's Fulvetta" or "Rufous-headed Fulvetta" alt. "- Tit-babbler"
● Yellowish-bellied Bush-warbler Cettia acanthizoides JULES VERREAUX 1871 a k a "Verreaux's Bush Warbler"
● Chinese Thrush Turdus mupinensis LAUBMANN 1920 a k a Chinese Song Trush or "Mongolian Thrush" alt. "Eastern –" or "Verreaux's Song Trush"
● Yellow-billed Turaco Tauraco macrorhynchus Fraser 1839 a k a "Verreaux's Turaco" (compare with below; T. m. verreauxii)

And the questioned species (or subspecies):
Lophornis (chalybeus) verreauxii BOURCIER 1853
Carpodacus (rhodopeplus) verreauxii DAVID & OUSTALET 1877
Paradoxornis (nipalensis) verreauxi SHARPE 1883

As well as the (less debated) the sub-species:
Aviceda cuculoides verreauxii LAFRESNAYE 1846
Tauraco macrorhynchus verreauxii SCHLEGEL 1854
Celeus grammicus verreauxii MALHERBE 1858
Cinnyricinclus leucogaster verreauxi BOCAGE 1870
● Caconda Kurrichane Thrush Turdus libonyana verreauxi BOCAGE 1870
Guttera edouardi/pucherani verreauxi ELLIOT 1870
Criniger calurus verreauxi SHARPE 1871

And finally some (out of many) synonym's:
● "Vidua verreauxi" CASSIN 1850 = Vidua paradisaea LINNAEUS 1758
● "Bubo verreauxii" BONAPARTE 1850 = Verreaux's Eagle Owl Bubo lacteus TEMMINCK 1820 a k a "Giant Eagle Owl" or "Milky Eagle-owl"
● (Verreauxia HARTLAUB 1856) in (Verreauxia) Sasia africana J VERREAUX & E VERREAUX 1855

Anyone of you guys "out there" know something additional of those Verreaux's?
 
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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
What about the Coua … or Coucal!?

The good thing (at least for me) is that I only have to deal with one of all those Birds!
● Verreaux’s Coua Coua verreauxi GRANDIDIER 1867 a k a "Verreaux's Coucal"

It´s the only species commemorating either Verreaux in its Common Swedish name … and they (the Swedish names) are my first Priority, the one's I´m trying to understand or at least do my best to figure out.

This Coua (or "Coucal") was described by Alfred Grandidier in 1867 in: Mammifères et Oiseaux noveaux découverts à Madagascar … Revue et Magasin de Zoologie Pure et Appliquée (Series 2) 19: 84-88 (Attached – where its type description is presented on p.86). Since my knowledge of French is close to none I have to ask you guys for some help …

Can anyone with better understanding of French (and/or Latin) tell, from any of those pages, which Verreaux it is that´s been commemorated in this specific Bird? Is there any clues or hints in either direction?

Or maybe someone already know!?

Cheers!
 

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James Jobling

Well-known member
This is what my MS currently shows. However, it is based on info that I gathered over ten years ago (pre BHL), so doubtless needs reviewing.

veroxii / verrauxi / verreauxi ● Jules Pierre Verreaux (1808-1873) and his brother Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868) French natural history dealers (syn. Anurolimnas castaneiceps). ● Jules Pierre Verreaux (1808-1873) French natural history dealer, collector (Aquila, syn. Bubo lacteus, subsp. Cinnyricinclus leucogaster, Coua, subsp. Criniger calurus, syn. Eupodotis caerulescens, Guttera, Leptotila, subsp. Rhipidura spilodera, Suthora (ex Suthora gularis J. Verreaux, 1871)). ● Jules Pierre Verreaux (1808-1873) and his brothers, Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868), and Joseph Aléxis Verreaux (d. 1868) French natural history dealers (Maison Verreaux in Paris) (subsp. Aviceda cuculoides). ● Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868) French natural history dealer (Cyanomitra). ● Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868), and Joseph Aléxis Verreaux (d. 1868) French natural history dealers (subsp. Turdus libonyanus).
VERREAUXIA (Picidae; Ϯ African Piculet V. africana) Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868) and Jules Pierre Verreaux (1808-1873) French natural history dealers.
verreauxii / verreauxius / verreauxorum ● Jules Pierre Verreaux (1808-1873) French natural history dealer, collector (syn. Alcedo meninting, subsp. Carpodacus rodopeplus, syn. Hypargos margaritatus, subsp. Pseudopoetus macrorhynchus, syn. Steganura paradisaea). ● Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868) and Jules Pierre Verreaux (1808-1873) French natural history dealers (syn. Campylopterus hemileucurus, Trichoglossus x, syn. Verreauxia africana). ● Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810-1868) French natural history dealer, collector (subsp. Celeus grammicus, Lophornis).
 

8669

Well-known member
No, not a word about who is commemorated on any of these pages, nor for any taxa.

Theo
 

l_raty

laurent raty
Later on, in the same journal, he published more extensive notes about mammals and birds of Madagascar. There were 4 parts to this work:

Rev. Magas. Zool., sér.2, 19(1867):313-324,
Rev. Magas. Zool., sér.2, 19(1867):353-360,
Rev. Magas. Zool., sér.2, 19(1867):417-420,
Rev. Magas. Zool., sér.2, 20(1868):3-7.

Therein, he cites Jules Verreaux a lot of times (on a quick look, on pp.318, 319, 353, 356, 357, 360, 418, and 5), albeit unfortunately not explicitly in the Coua Verreauxi account itself (p.417). He says he follows the same order as in Jules Verreaux' Conspectus; he agrees with Jules Verreaux on several points; Jules Verreaux was able to compare his specimens to others; etc.
 
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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Thanks, James, Theo and Laurent,
With this I think it´s fairly safe to claim that the Coua does commemorate Jules Verreaux (= Jules Pierre Verreaux), as stated in James' well-founded MS.

As you could tell from my initial post (No.#1) there seem to be some uncertainty, in various sources, of exactly what year Jules Verreaux was born ...

Does anyone know for sure? And doesn´t it also look a bit strange that both the younger Verreaux brothers seem to have died the same year!? Maybe some kind of mix-up … or an accident? Who knows?

Once again: Thanks!

PS. They were apparently four brothers; Jules, Edouard, Alexis and Auguste! Their father had started the successful family business, Maison Verreaux, in 1803. According to Google books (Snippet view) of "Du Jardin au Muséum en 516 biographies" by Jaussaud & Brygoo 2004 Jules Verreux was born "... né le 24 août 1807 probablement à Paris, mort le 7 septembre 1873 à Paris". Google also tells us that Mearns & Mearns 1988 Biographies for Birdwatchers: The Lives of Those Commemorated in Western Palearctic Bird Names claim 1807?

PPS. Is Jules Verreaux' "Conspectus" another publication than Bonaparte's Conspectus generum avium 1850?
 
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mb1848

Well-known member
PPS. Is Jules Verreaux' "Conspectus" another publication than Bonaparte's Conspectus generum avium 1850?

Jules was afterwards Curator of the Ornithological Department of the Paris Museum for many years, and, in his spare time, he determined and labelled the birds in the Maison Verreaux. The specimens were often issued without any exact indication of locality, but had attached to them in Jules' handwriting a large label giving the synonymy from Bonaparte's "Conspectus," without which book Jules never travelled. He possessed an immense knowledge of birds, probably greater than any man of his generation.
http://books.google.com/books?id=i1...Conspectus"&output=text&source=gbs_navlinks_s .
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Thanks "mb1848"

Ok, by this I think it´s pretty safe to claim:

Jules Pierre Verreaux (1807–1873) = CHECK!
Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810–1868) = Everybody seem to agree
Joseph Alexis Verreaux (xxxx –1868?) ... Anyone knows?
Auguste xxxxxxxxx? Verreaux (xxxx-xxxx) ...?

And what about their father:
Jacques Philippe/Jacques-Pierre?? Verreaux (xxxx-xxxxx) .. for completeness sake ... even if I´ve never seen anyone claiming him to be commemorated in any bird. But, who knows, he might have been? There´s still a few not accounted for!
 
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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Here´s the Obituary for Jules Pierre Verreaux ...

He apparently did die in Paris, and not in England, as suggested (here and there) on the internet, as like in, for example, the French (!) Wikipedia article about him.
 

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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
It seems like the Maison Verreaux started in 1800, originally located in 6 Boulevard Montmartre, and tree years later, in 1803, they apparently opened up another bransch on the more fancy address 9 Place des Vosges ("Place Royale").

The Family business was still running, long after both Jules and his brothers was gone, up till 1899, when it was closed down.

Their father seem to have been called Jacques Verreaux (and thereby I don´t necessary need to find out if his second first name was either Philippe or Pierre, or ??). In my script I can live with their parents mentioned only as "Jacques and Joséphine Verreaux".

Cheers!
 

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Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Possible revaluation of Alexis ...

The younger brother Joseph Alexis Verreaux is claimed to have died in 1868, a statement repeated and re-repeated, over and over, in book after book, in journals and various articles ... and (of course) all over the internet. But this, being the same year as his older brother Édouard died, made me suspicious. Ok, two brothers can die the same year, it´s possible, even in very different parts of the world, Édouard (not even 58 yars old) in Paris, and his younger brother Alexis i South Africa – but it´s not the obvious explanation!? This made me think that somewhere, during the years gone by, there might have been some kind of mix-up ...

What I know of Alexis is (in very short) that he was also a naturalist, taxidermist and collector. He accompanied Édouard to South Africa in 1832, and there he stayed, onwards sometimes working with Sir Andrew Smith, the great explorer of South African wildlife. Alexis apparently (Mearns & Mearns 1992) also ran gun powder shop in Cape Town.

But the question reamains: Did he really die in 1868!? If not, there is soo, soo many errors to be corrected!

Lassius, Y. 1981. Les voyageurs naturalistes du Jardin du roi et du Muséum d'histoire naturelle : essai de portrait-robot. Revue d'histoire des sciences 34 (3-4): 259-317. (See footnote, Page 300 attached.) ... claim Alexis died in 1861!

Link to full volume (here). Noteworthy is that not even the thorough Yves Lassius seem to have found any birth year!

Anyone of you guys know anything, whatever small, regarding Alexis?
 

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njlarsen

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I don't know if they were better at that type of thing back then, but I have seen several directories lately that contain names of people long after they have left.

Niels
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Either way ...

It might be right, it might be wrong. I haven´t found anyone, except Lassius stating Alexis died in 1861 ... but I still find it a strange coincidence, both brothers gone in the same year, not together in an accident, but way apart, both far to early in their lives?

I guess the key is finding that first claim of Alexis's "1868", based on what, evaluate it ... and take it from there!?
 

njlarsen

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but I still find it a strange coincidence, both brothers gone in the same year, not together in an accident, but way apart, both far to early in their lives?
● Jean Baptiste Édouard Verreaux (1810–1868)

I believe this to be an unusually long life at that time in human history!

Niels
 

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
You do?

I believe this to be an unusually long life at that time in human history!

Niels
Compare with other persons dealt with only in the last five threads here on Bird Forum:
● Jules Pierre Verreaux (1807–1873)
● Anne-Julie Mulsant (1801–1868)
● Edward Wilson (1808-1888)
● Thomas Bellerby Wilson (1807-1865)
● Henri Milne Edwards (1800–1885)
● Alphonse Milne-Edwards (1835–1900)
● George Edwards (1694–1773).
● Theobald Johannes Krüper (1829–1921)

... and so on.
 

njlarsen

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Compare for example with this page: http://demog.berkeley.edu/~andrew/1918/figure2.html
In the first line you find that the average life expectancy in the US was less than 50 years in year 1900. Extrapolating the trends backwards, the average would have been significantly less 100 years earlier.

Here is another page: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html
Life expectancy for a male in Massachusetts born in 1850 was 38.5 years.

Those in your list probably were economically better off than most, and therefore had longer lives than most. Still, one of the brothers would have been 58 the other somewhere close, and therefore both still beat the overall averages. They just about met the average for people who had survived the first 20 years of their life. Therefore, saying it was
both far to early in their lives?
to my mind shows an unrealistic expectation of life lengths.

Niels
 

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