The various Mr. Verreaux's and their Birds … (1 Viewer)

[Taphrospilus]

Anyway Jules was born in Paris here as his brother Édouard. Therefore it is very likely that Alexis was born there as well (after 1810). Would be interessting where Joseph Alexis Verreaux derived from?

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Anyway Jules was born in Paris here...

... with a link to "File:Verreaux death.jpg"; 7 September 1873 ... ?!?

 

[Taphrospilus]

... with a link to "File:Verreaux death.jpg"; 7 September 1873 ... ?!?

In his death entry is written:

...né à Paris (célibataire)...

... born in Paris (unmarried)...

Du huit Septembre

in the entry can confuse. we had that several times and thank's to Laurent we know that we have to read everything...

décédé hier matin à neuf heures

So he died 7th September at 9 in the morning.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Martin, I assume you´ve seen this one.

Verreaux, Mr Joseph Alexis
(zoological collection)

Born: Date not known, France.
Died: 4 August 1868, Cape
Town, South Africa

 

[Taphrospilus]

Martin, I assume you´ve seen this one.

You assumed wrong. First time I have seen a concrete date and place of death. But somewhere I have seen his name in context with El Negro.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Martin, I now tend to agree that Alexis's did die in 1868 ... too many, more or less (mostly more) trustworthy sources pointing the same way, this said, without haven´t checked him in full, as he´s not commemorated in any Swedish bird name, nor in any scientific name (as far as I know, and thereby he doesn´t really qualify in this forum). In my MS Alexis is only mentioned, briefly, in connection to his more famous, older brothers (both commemorated in several bird names). The one thing that made me wary was that one of his brothers died the same year, and such coincidents usually mean that there can/could have been some kind of mix-up. However it does look like (Joseph) Alexis died the same year as (Jean Baptiste) Édouard Verreaux (1810–1868).

Sorry for the confusion, but in my mind his death year needed to be questioned, and a double-check. Now it´s done.

Good luck finding his birth!

Well, that´s it, on my behalf ... I´m off to other guys.

 

[Taphrospilus]

(as far as I know, and thereby he doesn´t really qualify in this forum).

Not completly true Aviceda cuculoides verreauxii Lafresnaye, 1846

On page 132 here Lafresnaye wrote:

En donnant leur nom à cette nouvelle espèce d'un genre encore si rare et si peu connu, nous avons rendre hommage au zèle et à la perséverance de ces trois frères naturaliste....

Means the dedication was given to all three brothers and Alexis was mentioned in Lafresnayes text as the collector of the specimen (p. 131).

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

You´re right, missed that one ...

Yet another example when the plural form -iorum (verreauxiorum) would have been a better name!

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

Daszkiewicz, P. 2017. The decline and closure of Maison Verreaux as indicated by Władysław Taczanowski's letters. Archives of Natural History, Volume 44 (1): 130-133.

Abstract
Maison Verreaux was one of the longest established businesses dealing in natural history specimens with a catalogue offering thousands of species. Polish naturalists were major contributors to Maison Verreaux particularly of neotropical and Siberian specimens. This article presents an account of the decline and end of the enterprise through the letters of Władysław Taczanowski to Antoni Waga, Benedykt Dybowski, Konstanty Branicki and Konstanty Jelski.

 

[Taphrospilus]

One bird not mentioned here in tis thread is Alcedo Verreauxii (availble in the key but I think syn: Alcedo meninting would be correct as not availble in IOC world bird list). I am wondering about the full name of J. de la Berge (the author). Does anyone know his first name?

Here is written:

M. De la Berge presented 53 sterna of birds

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

"Alcedo Verreauxii" was described twice, first in 1850 by "J. De La Berge" (here) .... and again in 1851, by the same Author (here, signed "Novembre 1850", with a Plate on the page before). If of any help?

Who he was? I haven´t got a clue.

Good luck finding him!

Björn

PS. He´s a tricky guy to search for, as "de la berge" gives you a myriad of bank, embankment (berge) results.
An especially unfortunate coincidence when dealing with Kingfishers.
--

 

[Taphrospilus]

How did the key handle this name?

The correction is based on:

The key words here are "inadvertent error"... If the OS is not clearly the result of an inadvertent error (i.e., if it cannot be excluded that Smith acted intentionally -- say, in an attempt to create a word that would have a Latin pronunciation close to that of "Verreaux" in French), then the name must not be changed.
I actually have a hard time believing that anyone might "inadvertently" write Verreaux "Verox". And here, Smith didn't just do it once; he did it twice, as he also called an undescribed bustard "Otis veroxii Smith mms. Blue bellied Koran" in a footnote on p. 15 of the same paper.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

How did the key handle this name?

How the (dear old HBW Alive) Key did handle veroxii, per 15th of March 2014; see post #3 (in this very thread).

If altered since I do not know, but I cannot see any reason why it should have been shifted, or even modified.

/B

 

[Taphrospilus]

At least I see Laurents point that he wrote the name Verreaux correct in the text but not in the scientific name. So what was Smith intention to do so? Therefore there might be another reason why he has choosen Veroxii than the collectors name e.g. from viridis (vert) green? (as a tinge of green, shade of green in OD https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/54198#page/478/mode/1up).

Anway if I read https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/15969182#page/568/mode/1up why not Edouard Verreaux?

 

[Taphrospilus]

Martin, I haven't looked into this certain one, but note that later on, though still in the same volume of the South African quarterly journal; "Mr. Verreaux" (also on p.322) is, as well, mentioned as "Mr. J. Verreaux" (on p.323).

If of any use/help?

I have seen this as well. I just wanted to say if for the Verreauxs it could be any of them.

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

There is (or was), or could have been, a Latin word that might appear to look like 'verox', in a veridicus, viridian (green) context, at least in this Dizionario italiano, latino, e francese (from back in 1766!), but doesn't it actually, simply say "verax", as of here or here? If so, and it sure looks like it, we might forget about the green shade all together.

If either version could be relevant, in any way, in this certain case (veroxii), is all unknown to me, but even if so, in any case, I somewhat doubt that Dr. Smith would have used the genitive ending (-ii) if this colour was the reason itself.

If not a double-edged, fanciful play with words, and names, of course.

Björn

PS. The same Sunbird is (now) cooking in different kettles, in two separate threads, in different Forums, simultaneously. Thus, bit hard to keep up ...
--

 

[Taphrospilus]

Martin, I assume you´ve seen this one.

As it match to the topic Verreaux discussed in the other thread maybe Paul is able to find e.g. a travel document of Alexis with his birth date?

 

[PScofield]

Sorry this is requires a search of the Paris archives betwen 1811 and 1815 for a birth of a Joseph Alexis with parents Pierre-Jacques Verreaux and Joséphine Delalande.

 

[Taphrospilus]

Which is not availble due to fire blight of the old archive. Only some reconstructions. I hoped on some info when he went to South Africa.

 

[PScofield]

Just checking a few facts and came across this issue. 2 separate records of Baptiste Edouard's birth record his father as Charles not Pierre-Jacques. I am not sure what to make of this...