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Three raptor ID questions (1 Viewer)

JayFeatherPL

Well-known member
Poland
Hi!
I've got three birding questions - about birds of prey. I hope you can help me :) Thanks for all the answers in advance!

1.How can I separate the spotted eagles from the Common Buzzard (looking at the wings, I guess)? Besides the longer "fingers" and longer wings in Spotted Eagles (these are the only features I know). Are there any other features separating the buzzards from the spotted eagles?

2.Do harriers hold their wings in a "V" also during migration? Is it a good and practical feature to look at?

3.Is estimating age of the bird crucial to ID raptors? Because I've recently read (in a bird guide book) that "estimating age (understanding the moulting) is necessary to ID birds of prey and a way of moulting remiges not only helps to estimate the age but it's also important to correctly ID the raptor". What do you think about it? Is the age really so needful to ID a species of a bird of prey?

I really appreciate any help! It will definitely increase my birding knowledge. Thanks for every answer in advance.
Cheers! :)
 
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2.Do harriers hold their wings in a "V" also during migration? Is it a good and practical feature to look at?:)
I won't get involved in multiple repeat questions, but just to answer this one, as with most raptors that soar with wings held in a V, direct flapping flight and gliding flight have differing wing attitudes. All raptors in migration with soar, glide and flap at different points on migratory flights
 
Hi!
I've got three birding questions - about birds of prey. I hope you can help me :) Thanks for all the answers in advance!

1.How can I separate the spotted eagles from the Common Buzzard (looking at the wings, I guess)? Besides the longer "fingers" in Spotted Eagles. I know that Spotted eagles have longer wings, but it's sometimes hard to estimate in the field...Are there any other features separating the buzzards from the spotted eagles?

2.Do harriers hold their wings in a "V" also during migration? Is it a good and practical feature to look at?

3.Is estimating age of the bird crucial to ID raptors? Because I've recently read (in a bird guide book) that "estimating age (understanding the moulting) is necessary to ID birds of prey and a way of moulting remiges not only helps to estimate the age but it's also important to correctly ID the raptor". What do you think about it? Is the age really so needful to ID a species of a bird of prey?

I really appreciate any help! It will definitely increase my birding knowledge. Thanks for every answer in advance.
Cheers! :)



"1.How can I separate the spotted eagles from the Common Buzzard (looking at the wings, I guess)?"

With some weeks of field, you should be able to separate them at first sight, even before using any optic, so much they are different. As easy than to separate a stork from a heron or a crane for instance.
In case you are not yet there, you can use a simple way to train your eyes. "Finger" numbers can be the one. Buteo buzzards have 5, while Clanga eagles have 7 (the 7th being short in Lesser, long in Greater and often intermediate in hybrids).


"2.Do harriers hold their wings in a "V" also during migration? Is it a good and practical feature to look at?"

They do. Migrating or not doesn't change the wing position. Wings are typicall held higher when soaring than when gliding in all birds of prey.
"3.Is estimating age of the bird crucial to ID raptors? Because I've recently read (in a bird guide book) that "estimating age (understanding the moulting) is necessary to ID birds of prey and a way of moulting remiges not only helps to estimate the age but it's also important to correctly ID the raptor". What do you think about it? Is the age really so needful to ID a species of a bird of prey?"

You definitely need to check the age to separate similar looking species such Pallid & Montagu's Harriers for example. Not to separate very different ones such buzzards and eagles.
 
"1.How can I separate the spotted eagles from the Common Buzzard (looking at the wings, I guess)?"

With some weeks of field, you should be able to separate them at first sight, even before using any optic, so much they are different. As easy than to separate a stork from a heron or a crane for instance.
In case you are not yet there, you can use a simple way to train your eyes. "Finger" numbers can be the one. Buteo buzzards have 5, while Clanga eagles have 7 (the 7th being short in Lesser, long in Greater and often intermediate in hybrids).


"2.Do harriers hold their wings in a "V" also during migration? Is it a good and practical feature to look at?"

They do. Migrating or not doesn't change the wing position. Wings are typicall held higher when soaring than when gliding in all birds of prey.
"3.Is estimating age of the bird crucial to ID raptors? Because I've recently read (in a bird guide book) that "estimating age (understanding the moulting) is necessary to ID birds of prey and a way of moulting remiges not only helps to estimate the age but it's also important to correctly ID the raptor". What do you think about it? Is the age really so needful to ID a species of a bird of prey?"

You definitely need to check the age to separate similar looking species such Pallid & Montagu's Harriers for example. Not to separate very different ones such buzzards and eagles.
Thank you very much for the answer!
 
They do. Migrating or not doesn't change the wing position. Wings are typicall held higher when soaring than when gliding in all birds of prey.

And by the way one more question came into my mind: Is the position of the wings during gliding/soaring a helpful feature in birds of prey (in general)? Or maybe buzzard's / harrier's wings held in a V but during gliding (when wings are held lower) look more flat?
 
And by the way one more question came into my mind: Is the position of the wings during gliding/soaring a helpful feature in birds of prey (in general)? Or maybe buzzard's / harrier's wings held in a V but during gliding (when wings are held lower) look more flat?
Both... the position of wings is helpful for identification, and all birds of prey have wings held lower while gliding than while soaring.
 
Both... the position of wings is helpful for identification, and all birds of prey have wings held lower while gliding than while soaring.
Hello Valéry!
Would you like to help me one more time? I've got five questions, which I'd like to ask you.

1.Is white vs red a colour or a pattern? For example coot and moorhen. The coot has a white bill and the bony plate, while the latter has a red bill and the bony plate. Is this a good feature to separate these two?
I remember you told me that pale vs dark is pattern, but here, both white and red are pale colours.

2.Do Honey Buzzards always show a completely rounded „hand”? Or maybe it can look pointed in some cases (in some juveniles perhaps)?

3.The Goshawk is said to have "broad/massive hips" (unlike Sparrowhawk). The "hips" can be seen as a broad tail base, but the question is: Does "massive hips" mean the same as "deep chest"? I think both massive hips and deep chest are seen, simply as deep bottom of the body. I'm just confused with some people saying "Goshawk has a deep chest" and Collins Bird Guide saying "Goshawk has massive hips". Isn't this the same?

4.How can I identify the genus Acrocephalus? Is there a stable feature amongst all the Acrocephalus species? Apart from the habitat, let's say they're during migration.

5.Are black edges to a white bib a good feature to ID a female Bluethroat? Or are there better features?

I hope these questions are not a problem. Thank you very much for the answer in advance:) I'll definitely gain more knowledge thanks to you which I'll try to use out in the field.
Greetings from Poland, where autumn approaches very quickly! Have a nice day!
 
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Hello Jay,

I hope that Valéry and others comment, thanks from me too!

Anyway, regarding your question about Acrocephalus warblers:

  • they have some clumsy (sorry movements) and are regular slower in their movements than Phylloscopus warblers, which tend to be more flicky, faster= its easier to follow an Accro in a bush than a Chiffchaff
  • Reed, Marsh and Great Reed Warblers have longer, more stout bill than Phylloscopus warblers, together with a snout head profile gives them a distinctive jizz against a more rounded head in a Phylloscopus
  • Accros have a fuller tail than Phylloscopus warblers, notible in flight
  • Greater Whitethroat has a longer, narrow tail with a very pale underside (sometimes the blackish center is visible from below too). This can be obvious from a surprisingly long distance (with thanks to all again!)
  • Accrocephalus regular climb up reed-stems (more often then descending). I get the impression, they regular do so, when pished or they want to know whats going on (they are curious, arent they?)
  • I often find the lengths/fullness of the undertail-coverts difficult to judge in the field, but regular quite easy to judge on pictures
  • many Reed Warblers have a quite distinctive overall colouration, exact shades of the brown (rusty or warm) upperparts and when present, the warm, smooth yellow or rusty-buff is flanks or even belly is quite distinctive (ID of a common bird)
  • a distinctive coloured flank, contrasting to a paler, colourless belly and breast is also good for Reed Warbler. In Phylloscopus the underparts are regular more uniform, as it is in many Reed Warblers too. So this works in only one direction and is of course not foolproof


Reed Warbler, note bill-shape and warm rusty hues (Prenzlau, NE-Germany, 17.09.2017)


Chiffchaffs for comparison:


(Schwetzinger Wiesen, SW-Germany, 08.09.2012)



(Schwetzinger Wiesen, SW-Germany, 10.10.2010)



(Schwetzinger Wiesen, SW-Germany, 07.04.2013)
 
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3.The Goshawk is said to have "broad/massive hips" (unlike Sparrowhawk). The "hips" can be seen as a broad tail base, but the question is: Does "massive hips" mean the same as "deep chest"? I think both massive hips and deep chest are seen, simply as deep bottom of the body. I'm just confused with some people saying "Goshawk has a deep chest" and Collins Bird Guide saying "Goshawk has massive hips". Isn't this the same?

A "deep chest" generally refers to the the depth from back to front in the area of the birds breast; massive hips would generally refer to the width (from side to side) of the body just in front of the tail base.
 
A "deep chest" generally refers to the the depth from back to front in the area of the birds breast; massive hips would generally refer to the width (from side to side) of the body just in front of the tail base.
I think the hips would be as seen from below, the chest as seen from the side. Same thing (I think) but expressed in a way that might make more sense to some.
 

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