Tipping guide (s) on international guided trips (1 Viewer)

[mikejf]

Interesting thread and I see both sides of the argument. I suspect those that have done a low paid crap job in hospitality in their youth are more likely to tip as they know what the extra money means to the guide / waiter / driver etc.

Its easy to keep your hand in your pocket and moralise about how wrong tipping is, but it really does make a huge difference to the lives of those less fortunate who can only dream of travelling around on nature holidays.

 

[Sangahyando]

Its easy to keep your hand in your pocket and moralise about how wrong tipping is, but it really does make a huge difference to the lives of those less fortunate who can only dream of travelling around on nature holidays.

In my experience, the ones doing the moralising were always the ones who exhort everyone else to tip.

 

[Ted Y.]

it was completely reasonable to stop guiding in the middle of the trip and demand extra money

you Europeans are like a dollar note walking on two legs

This is about a business model.
Good to know about it.

 

[Trinovid]

Interesting thread and I see both sides of the argument. I suspect those that have done a low paid crap job in hospitality in their youth are more likely to tip as they know what the extra money means to the guide / waiter / driver etc.

Its easy to keep your hand in your pocket and moralise about how wrong tipping is, but it really does make a huge difference to the lives of those less fortunate who can only dream of travelling around on nature holidays.

Apparently you don't see both sides of the argument and I don't appreciate a post like yours telling me that I've never worked for crap wages on and off all throughout my life, including now.

What is easiest of all is to ignore the content of posts like mine while you sit on a high horse and pontificate to those of us who have had a huge difference made from the tips we've received, and yet still don't think they should have ever become an accepted norm, all the way down to having servers chasing me out the door because he didn't see the generous tip I left on the table for him.

If you're going to claim a clear view of both sides then the rest of your post should reflect exactly that; both sides and not just one as you've done here.

 

[Andy Adcock]

The fact is that an American custom has become a Worldwide norm and many Brits are uncomfortable with tipping, especially when you may have already paid thousands of Pounds for a trip. The argument that 'you can afford it' is flawed IMHO, it's up to employers to pay their staff a decent wage and not depend on others to increase their margins by topping it up. Do you tip store workers when they serve you, why not?

Those who argue that 'it's a short season' and that guides should make as much money as they can in that time should ask their boss if they can get paid double because they want to work part time. In many parts of the World, guiding is a secondary income stream for those able to do it.

I'm hoping to do a trip to Mexico soon and guide prices for a days guiding are $200-250 per person per day so two people will pay a guide $4-500 per day.

 

[Trinovid]

Those who argue that 'it's a short season' and that guides should make as much money as they can in that time should ask their boss if they can get paid double because they want to work part time. In many parts of the World, guiding is a secondary income stream for those able to do it.

Bingo. As a guide I also had another good paying job and what I made as a guide was great even without the tips that actually sometimes made me feel a bit guilty since as I said earlier, most of the good tips come from customers who were already a joy to serve, on top of already getting paid well.

If someone wants to be tipped they need to offer exemplary service and leave it up to the customer to do as they please. They've already paid and don't need to be bullied to pay more.

 

[rosbifs]

Bingo. As a guide I also had another good paying job and what I made as a guide was great even without the tips that actually sometimes made me feel a bit guilty since as I said earlier, most of the good tips come from customers who were already a joy to serve, on top of already getting paid well.

If someone wants to be tipped they need to offer exemplary service and leave it up to the customer to do as they please. They've already paid and don't need to be bullied to pay more.

Fully agree...

...and as I said before you know if a guide has gone the extra mile and therefore deserves a tip. There shouldn't be any pressure on whether to tip or and tips received are a welcome surprise.

I can see where the difference arises when tips are expected or 'compulsory' - this is clearly where the price should reflect that at the outset and yes the guide gets paid more - partially it's done for fiscal reasons as it becomes an undeclared income that doesn't attract tax for the company or guide. So your 500e tip to a guide (that would be nice) would translate to 1000e charge if added to the cost.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Fully agree...

...and as I said before you know if a guide has gone the extra mile and therefore deserves a tip. There shouldn't be any pressure on whether to tip or and tips received are a welcome surprise.

I can see where the difference arises when tips are expected or 'compulsory' - this is clearly where the price should reflect that at the outset and yes the guide gets paid more - partially it's done for fiscal reasons as it becomes an undeclared income that doesn't attract tax for the company or guide. So your 500e tip to a guide (that would be nice) would translate to 1000e charge if added to the cost.

IIRC, most Galapagos tours state that they expect 10% gratuity at tour end.

 

[rosbifs]

I'm hoping to do a trip to Mexico soon and guide prices for a days guiding are $200-250 per person per day so two people will pay a guide $4-500 per day.

How does that equate to a local salary?

A walking guide here commands in the region of 250e to 300e a day, high mountain guides more, birdwatching guides 150e-200e depending if transport is included (bit of a grey area regarding insurance etc).

 

[Andy Adcock]

How does that equate to a local salary?

A walking guide here commands in the region of 250e to 300e a day, high mountain guides more, birdwatching guides 150e-200e depending if transport is included (bit of a grey area regarding insurance etc).

Sorry, no idea at this point.

 

[rosbifs]

In three seasons in the alps
First year lots of school groups - 't' shirts or hat but very little money
Second year - small chalet - very few tips as low budget
Third year - Val D'Isere - averaged 270e per week tips, meals out, drinks. Mainly super nice clients, happy to 'serve'! The worst clients in all respects were the ones who got a last minute 1/2 price deal - obnoxious

 

[Mike Crawley]

all the way down to having servers chasing me out the door because he didn't see the generous tip I left on the table for him.

I'm inclined to suggest that this sort of behaviour doesn’t support the pro-tipping argument - if a server chased me out of a restaurant I'd be tempted to go back in and retrieve my tip.
And for information I’m happy to tip good service - my barber, the lads who wash my car, the bar staff at local hostelries, servers at restaurants, cab drivers

 

[Andy Adcock]

I'm inclined to suggest that this sort of behaviour doesn’t support the pro-tipping argument - if a server chased me out of a restaurant I'd be tempted to go back in and retrieve my tip.
And for information I’m happy to tip good service - my barber, the lads who wash my car, the bar staff at local hostelries, servers at restaurants, cab drivers

Not the checkout girls in Tesco?

 

[rosbifs]

Not the checkout girls in Tesco?

Got to draw the line somewhere - waitrose yes but Tesco ?

In fairness the checkout staff at tesco probably earn more than most bird guides…

 

[Trinovid]

I'm inclined to suggest that this sort of behaviour doesn’t support the pro-tipping argument - if a server chased me out of a restaurant I'd be tempted to go back in and retrieve my tip.

None of my posts are 'pro-tipping' and I told the guy that I was tempted to go back in and take the tip back off of the table. Told him my views on tipping and that I'd left a good one because he'd been such an excellent server, but no one 'deserves a tip'. They can only earn them.

 

[Mike Crawley]

None of my posts are 'pro-tipping'

I wasn’t aware that I had suggested that you were “pro-tipping”
I thought my post suggested that I was anti the behaviour of the server

I’m a firm believer in tipping when and where appropriate

 

[kstrating]

I work in the tourist industry, on a cruise ship. I never expect tips, though I do appreciate them. Tips help me in more than just monetary ways, they help me emotionally and mentally. They feel like a thank you that is more than just a handshake (though those are appreciated too). It gives me a sense that my extra efforts, (which are unpaid and start months before the season), are recognized and appreciated. But mostly, tips help raise my spirits and keep my energy up. It is really easy to get burnt out, particularly when you have a job that requires travel and many new faces. Yes I am American, but I don't count on tipping for income, infact the company I work for does not require it. That said, I will always tip for good service (sliding scale), it is a gift that is both immediate, and carries on to the next guest.

I do have a non-monetary tipping idea... In many countries bird books are difficult to come by, or are cost prohibitive. I often carry extra bird books to give away. They are perfect to give to guides, schools, lodges, and other bird nerds. Giving them away makes room for return gifts or souvenirs, and lightens my load. Even older books are appreciated. I took a couple copies of Songbirds of South America (Ridgely and Tudor 2009) with me to Columbia and they went over great, in some cases, better than money. It is a gift that gets passed on from current to future generations of bird guides and from which their guests also benefit. With luck it will encourage some young person to become a local bird advocate.

Happy birding all!

 

[MiddleRiver]

I have to admit I never knew tipping was so controversial…
I asked the question mostly because I have travelled a fair bit (admittedly mostly - but not exclusively - in Western Hemisphere) and usually go with ‘local customs’ but until now had never used a birding guide. And tho I haven’t used many guides overall, places I have (required by regs, such as Galapagos or Tikal), tips were expected and not doing so would be considered a statement of displeasure with service.
YMMV ;-)

 

[Mysticete]

When I was in Panama the general sense I got was that a small tip was expected, at least that was the recommendation of the Canopy Tower/Lodge. I didn't see it as much of a big deal, especially as someone with a fairly stable job and my visit taking place just after travel restrictions were being lifted...many of the staff had been forced to take odd jobs during the lockdown and were hurting, and there were very few guests. It's also not like the expected tips were that much money. I think I spent more money buying pizza the other day than I did tipping the housekeeping staff in Panama.

Obviously, if my guide was crappy, or if it was only for a few hours, I wouldn't tip. But if I think they worked there but off I don't see an issue.

On the other hand, if I was taking a tour with a international company (Field Guides, Wings, etc), I don't think I would tip: The way I figure, the guides are being more than adequately compensated by the company, and hell...I bet most of them make more in a year than I do! I honestly get confused on whether tips are expected or not in the USA, but then I think I have only ever used a hired guide once; Otherwise its been birding by myself or friends who I compensate with paying for gas or buying lunch.

 

[Trinovid]

As an entertainer I'll never forget listening to a bartender and a couple waitresses complaining about how poorly they'd done on tips that night and what jerks the customers were for not giving them more. Didn't here what the others got but the bartender was mad because she only got about $350 in tips (on top of her wages) that night. My opinion that the customers didn't owe me or them any tips at all and we should all be grateful for whatever the give us didn't sit well with them, just as their complaint about not making $500 when I'm happy to make $100-150 a night still doesn't sit well with me.