Trinovid 8x20. Tiny and timeless, the classic lives. (1 Viewer)

[eronald]

After the Victory Pocker fiasco I got another Leica 8x20, with rubber armor. My first dates from 1983, I think and I don’t know where it is.
So far so good. I can adjust it for my eyes without glasses, and when I look through it I get a decent sharp image.
The design must be perfected now; the view is much better than I remember, I guess better prism glass, and improved coatings happened.
I don’t think there are perfect solutions to the pocket bin problem - the VP has bad ergos, and I can’t adjust the Curio to my eyes witout glasses. So this I guess is the best I can hope for.


Edmund

 

[tenex]

Yes, I recently posted in another thread that Trinovid compacts now seem to have all the same coatings as Ultravids, so they must be very nice indeed, lacking only nitrogen filling and central diopter which of course add significant cost.

 

[eronald]

Yes, I recently posted in another thread that Trinovid compacts now seem to have all the same coatings as Ultravids, so they must be very nice indeed, lacking only nitrogen filling and central diopter which of course add significant cost.

I bought a T and not an UV precisely because of the lack of central diopter: I get considerable past-infinity adjustability and can use it without glasses. Also, I have experience of this model, it is robust.

 

[forent]

Yes, I recently posted in another thread that Trinovid compacts now seem to have all the same coatings as Ultravids, so they must be very nice indeed, lacking only nitrogen filling and central diopter which of course add significant cost.

I guess you mentioned this posting:

Doesn't it? According to Leica both the Trinovid and Ultravid compacts have HDC (transmission multicoating), P40 (phase), HLS (dielectric mirror), and AquaDura (hydrophobic) coatings. So I expect you'd have to go fairly cheap to not find it.

That's interesting indeed! I'm a happy owner of the Leica Trinovid 10x25 BCA (bought new in 2021) and wanted to know whether there have been made any improvements in this classic line (existing since 1979, I think). The German Leica website is less than informative in this respect, unfortunately.
So in January 2022 I phoned the Leica people in Wetzlar and they told me that the Trinovid compacts have remained completely unchanged since 1996. Their lenses are HDC and P40 coated but neither HLS nor AquaDura.

By accident, I have asked Leica Germany the very same question about the Trinovid 10x25 BCA three weeks ago. They answered quickly and clearly: There have not been made any changes since 1996, be it in mechanics, optics or coating.

Where does your information come from? Has Leica maybe improved the coatings of their Trinovid compacts in 2022? That would be good news!

 

[eronald]

All I can say is that I compared my Trinovids to a bunch of binoculars and they hold up well.
The precise reason I got them is that when testing at the shop they provided decent contrast and excelllent sharpness at nightfall, and we all know how hard that is.
Anyone who wants a no-fuss pocket bin, I can recommend them. Clearly the “luxury” category eg. Curio, Ultravid etc have more going for them, but these are more suitable for an everyday carry for my eyes with extreme myopia.

Edmund

 

[wllmspd]

I compared the size and weight of all the compact models and picked up a secondhand 8x20 Trinovid recently. Crazy small and works just fine, lovely views for when you don’t have a proper binocular on you.

Peter

 

[tenex]

Where does your information come from? Has Leica maybe improved the coatings of their Trinovid compacts in 2022?

2018 Leica optics catalog, so either this or your source is mistaken about HLS/AquaDura. An unfortunate confusion.

 

[forent]

I'm afraid that could have been a typo in the catalogue.

On the Leica website providing the technical data sheets Downloads | Leica Camera UK one can find the information about the Ultravid compacts (as of October 2017):

https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-55816-Leica_SO_Datenblatt_Ultravid_Kompakte_1017_EN.pdf

as well as the information about the Trinovid compacts (from August 2020):

https://leica-camera.com/sites/default/files/pm-55941-Leica_SO_Pi_Trinovid_Compact_0820_EN.pdf

The sheets specify that the Ultravids are equipped with P40, HLS, HDC and AquaDura while the Trinovid compacts are P40 and HDC coated only. That concurs with the advice the German Leica staff gave me last year. Actually, according to the data sheets the only Trinovid with AquaDura coating seems to be the 'Retrovid'.

 

[forent]

Addendum:
This morning, I phoned with Leica in Wetzlar again and asked how the Trinovids are coated. Their technician told me that Leica changed their coating procedure for binoculars sometime in late 2021 or early 2022 - he could neither tell the exact date nor the respective serial numbers. Since then, he said, the outer lens surfaces of all Leica binoculars are AquaDura coated to ease and standardise the production processes. Still, HLS coating is not applied to the Trinovids.

 

[Trinovid]

Trinovid 8x20. Tiny and timeless...

I've got four Ultravid 8x20's right now and still find my old Leitz 8x20c to be really enjoyable to use. Wish I'd found out about them years ago, but at least I've got one now.

 

[adhoc]

Please excuse for not being strictly on topic, but this thread seems to me presently the most relevant for these questions.

Leica make some of the best binoculars in the world, and their customer service people respond courteously by phone or email, but the technical information provided in their website, and personally conveyed by such people, is too often just incorrect.

I find both sources not of much help in this, hence, can someone please tell me, for certain: (1) In the last 10 years has the Ultravid pocket range (8, 10x) been improved optically at all? (2) Has their weight been lightened at all? Thank you! (I do see what is on the website!)

 

[tenex]

The sheets specify that the Ultravids are equipped with P40, HLS, HDC and AquaDura while the Trinovid compacts are P40 and HDC coated only.

No, they don't. The Trinovid PDF you just posted clearly says "roof prism with phasecorrecting coating P40 and HighLux-System HLS". The only coating they don't mention is AquaDura.

There have been errors in spec sheets before (notably converting FOV from m to ft)... and there has been faulty information from customer service before. So I think we need a more authoritative source to resolve this, and perhaps they could answer adhoc's question in #11 too.

 

[Canip]

Assuming that by „improved optically“ you mean a change of a certain importance, such as the switch form HD to HD+ on the larger models, afaik there was no such change on the pocket UVs (I think Leica would have mentioned such a change somewhere). This does not mean that continuous improvements on glass or coatings have not been implemented, as in any decent manufacturing business.
I am also not aware of any changes re the weight. But I am happy to be proven wrong if somemone knows better.

 

[forent]

No, they don't. The Trinovid PDF you just posted clearly says "roof prism with phasecorrecting coating P40 and HighLux-System HLS". The only coating they don't mention is AquaDura.

There have been errors in spec sheets before (notably converting FOV from m to ft)... and there has been faulty information from customer service before. So I think we need a more authoritative source to resolve this, and perhaps they could answer adhoc's question in #11 too.

You are right and I stand corrected. Sorry, I can't explain why I misread those passages. Anyway, now I'm curious enough to write an extensive letter to Leica. And then I will hope for a more authoritative reader in Wetzlar.

 

[brocknroller]

After the Victory Pocker fiasco I got another Leica 8x20, with rubber armor. My first dates from 1983, I think and I don’t know where it is.
So far so good. I can adjust it for my eyes without glasses, and when I look through it I get a decent sharp image.
The design must be perfected now; the view is much better than I remember, I guess better prism glass, and improved coatings happened.
I don’t think there are perfect solutions to the pocket bin problem - the VP has bad ergos, and I can’t adjust the Curio to my eyes witout glasses. So this I guess is the best I can hope for.


Edmund

Don't give up hope, Edmund! The perfect solution to the pocket bin problem is to get someone to sew slightly bigger pockets in your jacket, so you can fit one of these inside it.

Brock

 

[mwhogue]

Please excuse for not being strictly on topic, but this thread seems to me presently the most relevant for these questions.

Leica make some of the best binoculars in the world, and their customer service people respond courteously by phone or email, but the technical information provided in their website, and personally conveyed by such people, is too often just incorrect.

I find both sources not of much help in this, hence, can someone please tell me, for certain: (1) In the last 10 years has the Ultravid pocket range (8, 10x) been improved optically at all? (2) Has their weight been lightened at all? Thank you! (I do see what is on the website!)

Assuming that by „improved optically“ you mean a change of a certain importance, such as the switch form HD to HD+ on the larger models, afaik there was no such change on the pocket UVs (I think Leica would have mentioned such a change somewhere). This does not mean that continuous improvements on glass or coatings have not been implemented, as in any decent manufacturing business.
I am also not aware of any changes re the weight. But I am happy to be proven wrong if somemone knows better.

I think Canip is correct on both counts. IIRC the UV 8x20 and 10x25 were never upgraded to HD or HD+ grade because any resulting, and presumably very slight if any, improvements given the inherent size limitations would not justify the increased cost. Also agree if they had been upgraded to HD or HD+ Leica would almost certainly be touting this. In terms of weight, I doubt the UV series has been lightened since they were introduced. Beginning with the Leitz 8x20 and 10x22 C Trinovid models, the periodically updated pocket models through the current UV series have gotten progressively larger and heavier with each model change.

Mike

 

[adhoc]

Thanks, Canip and Mike, no, I did not mean that kind of improvement, but the little change/s in coatings that Canip writes of. In the Ultravid pocket 8 and 10x, in the last 10 years, has/have there actually been any such resulting in an improvement of any kind in the image detectable by users? That is what I meant.

The weight brings us again to the website data-customer service roulette. 10 years ago, the Ultravid 10x25 in rubber was 280 g (without strap or caps, to the nearest multiple of 5 g) according to the website and also as measured by me, and in leather was stated therein to be 265 g which was probably correct. Today the 'Technical Data' download therein states 265 and 255 g (respectively), and the 'Technical Data' section within the 'Instructions' download therein states 255 and 245 g! I email customer service. They take the confusion to the next level: "The weight [vs 10 years back] should have remained the same, the information in the technical data sheet may have been revised." Please, has someone in BF actually weighed a recent Ultravid 10x25 in rubber or in leather? Thanks!

 

[eronald]

Don't give up hope, Edmund! The perfect solution to the pocket bin problem is to get someone to sew slightly bigger pockets in your jacket, so you can fit one of these inside it.

Brock

I have one of thos $10 Uniqlo sleeveless down vests, and do in fact sometimes transport a compact 6x Zeiss Deltrinem 6x30 in the inside “shelf” on countryside walks. It’s a bit large but surprisingly light. Half the point of a “pocket“ binocular is that you want to look fairly normal and not geeky when not using it.

When I got the Victory Pocket (swap, anyone?) I was hoping it would serve this function, it turns out not. My Leica UV 7x42 is pleasant to use, but really not a walkabout.

Edmund

 

[eronald]

Thanks, Canip and Mike, no, I did not mean that kind of improvement, but the little change/s in coatings that Canip writes of. In the Ultravid pocket 8 and 10x, in the last 10 years, has/have there actually been any such resulting in an improvement of any kind in the image detectable by users? That is what I meant.

The weight brings us again to the website data-customer service roulette. 10 years ago, the Ultravid 10x25 in rubber was 280 g (without strap or caps, to the nearest multiple of 5 g) according to the website and also as measured by me, and in leather was stated therein to be 265 g which was probably correct. Today the 'Technical Data' download therein states 265 and 255 g (respectively), and the 'Technical Data' section within the 'Instructions' download therein states 255 and 245 g! I email customer service. They take the confusion to the next level: "The weight [vs 10 years back] should have remained the same, the information in the technical data sheet may have been revised." Please, has someone in BF actually weighed a recent Ultravid 10x25 in rubber or in leather? Thanks!

I hear there are some swiss suppliers of precision scales who do a special line for binocular weighing

 

[mwhogue]

Thanks, Canip and Mike, no, I did not mean that kind of improvement, but the little change/s in coatings that Canip writes of. In the Ultravid pocket 8 and 10x, in the last 10 years, has/have there actually been any such resulting in an improvement of any kind in the image detectable by users? That is what I meant.

The weight brings us again to the website data-customer service roulette. 10 years ago, the Ultravid 10x25 in rubber was 280 g (without strap or caps, to the nearest multiple of 5 g) according to the website and also as measured by me, and in leather was stated therein to be 265 g which was probably correct. Today the 'Technical Data' download therein states 265 and 255 g (respectively), and the 'Technical Data' section within the 'Instructions' download therein states 255 and 245 g! I email customer service. They take the confusion to the next level: "The weight [vs 10 years back] should have remained the same, the information in the technical data sheet may have been revised." Please, has someone in BF actually weighed a recent Ultravid 10x25 in rubber or in leather? Thanks!

Adhoc,

In terms of interim improvement of coatings, as opposed to HD/HD+ upgrades, as Canip suggests there may well have been some interim improvements in any given model over time. However, based on my comparison of various older and newer models the improved optical performance as the models changed is only slightly apparent in direct comparison and more noticeable in low light. So by extrapolation, my guess is any interim coating improvements with a given model would probably be undetectable in actual use as opposed to lab testing.

Looks like we may never get a reliable answer from Leica regarding weight. I'll look for a scale and weigh the 10x25 UV in leather and rubber over this weekend.

Mike