Turkestan/Isabelline Shrike Pakistan (1 Viewer)

[Himalaya]

Got a few Isabelline/Turkestan type Shrikes. All taken from September to March. I want to separate them into L.Isabellinus and L.Phoenicuroides.

What are the best ways to tell them apart juvenile and adults?

In my opinion they are as follows:-

Turkestan - from Sept to Dec
Turkestan - taken in March
Isabelline - taken in March
Isabelline - taken in March.
Isabelline - taken in March?

 

[Himalaya]

Isabelline?
Next 4 I feel are Turkestan Shrikes taken from Sept to November.

 

[Himalaya]

These all appear to be Turkestan Shrikes? Taken from November to January

 

[Himalaya]

First Shrike looks odd. From December.

Next 4 are Turkestan Shrikes? Taken over the last 6 weeks.

 

[tconzemi]

Dear Himalaya
there are too many birds that^s probably why nobody comments, each bird is an interesting challenge
unfortunately not enough time to comment but some of the birds you call Turkestan would be Isabelline in my eyes such as bird 1 in post 2.
So this is mainly meant to bump up, maybe someone gives a try

 

[Brian J Small]

There are a lot of photos here and the majority are Isabelline Shrike - some are very faded and worn, but still look like Isabelline. Some are simply not of good enough quality.

Those that look more like Turkestan: Post 1 #1 ; Post 4 #3

The reality is that the large majority of birds in Pakistan between Set and March are going to be Isabelline.

B

 

[Himalaya]

Thanks for bumping it up Tconzemi. I posted many because i thought it was easier.
Brian - Turkestan/Lanus Phoenecuroides breeds in South West Pakistan on the border of Afghanistan from what I read.

 

[andyb39]

I would add #3 in Post 3 to the list of Turkestan candidates.

I'd say #1 in Post 3 is a fairly typical 1st year arenarius - this is apparently the form of Isabelline that occurs in Pakistan. The other birds mostly seem to be that form.

The most interesting bird is #5 in Post 4. Strong head pattern including dark lores and strangely dark on the upperparts. Not Isabelline, I'm pretty sure.

Have you looked at this article? It's rather dated but the plates are good and it has interesting information on ranges and hybrid populations. It also raises a question mark over whether Turkestan winters in Pakistan (fig. 1)- it seems it does in small numbers. It's also possible hybrid Red-backed x Turkestan and Red-backed x Isabelline could pass through Pakistan on migration (see fig. 1).

https://www.dutchbirding.nl/journal/pdf/DB_2000_22_6.pdf