Two moths for ID, Farnborough (1 Viewer)

[Farnboro John]

I can't quite work these out but they may be easy for some others.

First is a carpet and I thought would be no trouble but I just can't quite match it up...

Second is a beauty but seems both too small and not quite right for Willow which normally predominates here. Bic biro lid for scale.

Grateful for any assistance!

Cheers

John

 

[Britseye]

I can't quite work these out but they may be easy for some others.

First is a carpet and I thought would be no trouble but I just can't quite match it up...

Second is a beauty but seems both too small and not quite right for Willow which normally predominates here. Bic biro lid for scale.

Grateful for any assistance!

Cheers

John

I'm going with Common Carpet and Brussel's Lace, John.

I had a lot of battles with Common Carpet in my first year but I learned that they have a number of broods that overlap with each other making them a continuous presence throughout the summer. Your 'beauty' is at a bit of an odd angle, but I think its paleness and that smudgy mark at the bottom of the wing (I'm sure there's a technical term for that ) is the hint for me.

 

[Farnboro John]

I'm going with Common Carpet and Brussel's Lace, John.

I had a lot of battles with Common Carpet in my first year but I learned that they have a number of broods that overlap with each other making them a continuous presence throughout the summer. Your 'beauty' is at a bit of an odd angle, but I think its paleness and that smudgy mark at the bottom of the wing (I'm sure there's a technical term for that ) is the hint for me.

I think you're right about the Common Carpet, thank you very much for that!

The other: I looked at your suggestion and it still didn't quite seem to fit but then my eye fell on Grey Birch, which I'd not considered earlier. That seems very close indeed, with the four leading edge marks (and the shape of them) pretty much identical, and things like the diffuse spot at the outer trailing edge of the forewing correct where it is absent in Brussels Lace. What do you think?

Maybe someone else would like to chip in!

Cheers

John

 

[dantheman]

I'd agree with Common Carpet and Grey Birch

 

[Farnboro John]

Thanks Dan. Grey Birch is a tick so I had to be sure.

Cheers

John

 

[Andy Adcock]

Never had Grey Birch, it looks a lot more elongated and pointy winged than the book shows, must be the angle of the shot?

 

[Britseye]

Yep. Grey Birch. Had never heard of that one till just now. It hasn't crossed my path in the Plymouth area AFAIK although I see from the distribution map on UK moths, they should be around. Off the top of my head, and I have seen some colour variations in the half-dozen I've seen, Brussel's Lace would be more triangular in shape and with a more complex pattern.

 

[Farnboro John]

Never had Grey Birch, it looks a lot more elongated and pointy winged than the book shows, must be the angle of the shot?

Yes, the shape was spot on but the angle from which I could shoot was awkward.

John

 

[Andy Adcock]

I'm going with Common Carpet and Brussel's Lace, John.

I had a lot of battles with Common Carpet in my first year but I learned that they have a number of broods that overlap with each other making them a continuous presence throughout the summer. Your 'beauty' is at a bit of an odd angle, but I think its paleness and that smudgy mark at the bottom of the wing (I'm sure there's a technical term for that ) is the hint for me.

Only in the South, single brooded in the North.

 

[Britseye]

Only in the South, single brooded in the North.

How about in the middle where you are then, Andy?

I just looked at UK moths and I see the wording is different from my first edition Lewington, which spoke of 2-3 broods overlapping. I don't have the book to hand so can't check if I remember that correctly. I find it fascinating the deeper one delves into the Natural World to find the 'rules' that are 'fixed' versus the ones that are 'flexible'. For instance I was in N-E England briefly during the heatwave two summers ago, and a friend of mine who's been following these things for years was delighted to find fresh Holly Blues in midsummer for only the second time in 20 years. In some parts of the country this still leaves time for a much smaller third brood in late Sept/Oct but again, that's largely weather dependent, of course.

 

[Andy Adcock]

How about in the middle where you are then, Andy?

I just looked at UK moths and I see the wording is different from my first edition Lewington, which spoke of 2-3 broods overlapping. I don't have the book to hand so can't check if I remember that correctly. I find it fascinating the deeper one delves into the Natural World to find the 'rules' that are 'fixed' versus the ones that are 'flexible'. For instance I was in N-E England briefly during the heatwave two summers ago, and a friend of mine who's been following these things for years was delighted to find fresh Holly Blues in midsummer for only the second time in 20 years. In some parts of the country this still leaves time for a much smaller third brood in late Sept/Oct but again, that's largely weather dependent, of course.

The earliest I've ever had it is 26th May and the latest 4th Sept, so double brooded here at least. But where does 'North' begin, probably North of the Midlands?