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Two people break 10,000 species, and on the same day? Can it be? (1 Viewer)

I just double-checked. I'm quite surprised by the number of these that Peter also claims:
Zapata Rail, Buff-breasted Buttonquail, Jerdon's Courser, Chestnut-shouldered Goshawk, Albertine Owlet, Western Wattled Cuckooshrike, Sooty Shrikethrush, Dusky Tetraka, Bahama Nuthatch, Cozumel Thrasher, Afghan Snowfinch, Ibadan Malimbe, Shelley's Crimsonwing, Red Weaver, Jambandu Indigobird, Grey-crowned Palm-tanager and Blackthroat.
Almost all of these seem in the kinda believable range, but two stick out to me: the Buttonquail and the Tetraka.
Just to tackle a few of these - Jerdon's Course was readily available in the early 1990s - plenty of birders saw it in that time and suspect Peter saw it when he was based in Dehli; Blackthroat was reliable in both Sichuan and Shaanxi for a period in the 2000s (and may still be, not sure, though one of the reserves is now 'closed' ); GC Palm-tanager is easy in Haiti and suspect Peter had heavyweight support on the ground; Peter saw the Snowfinch when he was stationed in Kabul!
 
I do like how the article is written by Jason Mann, and 'quotes' Jason Mann in the 3rd person though ;-)
This is probably because earlier today (Friday), it was still "By Jason Mann and Manakin Nature Tours" and the title of the article was something like "World's top birder Jason Mann breaks world record..." :ROFLMAO:
 
I suspect that it is balanced to a degree by three factors - political instability rendering some areas inaccessible or more dangerous ...

For how much longer will safe really global travel be possible?
I would say global travel is not particularly more dangerous today than at any point in the past, probably even the opposite. It's swings and roundabouts, but there are many areas that were no-go in earlier times (eg Angola, Mozambique, Algeria, Central America, Peru, Columbia, etc) that are certainly safer today than at times in my earlier birding days.
Of course the reverse is true for some areas (parts of the Sahel, parts of Indonesia, parts of the Middle East, etc). On balance however, especially in terms of birding areas, I wager that more species are in 'doable' areas today than in decades past.
 
... the Manakin Tours post did say he'd visited 190 countries, it's implied he had money (lots of tours and private guided birding along the way?), and perhaps he did hire lots of helicopters etc etc ...

(Doesn't change the odds that much in his favour in some respects). It did say in that article he went up 'alone' to reach his 10,000th bird. I assume the 10,001st species photographed is a stock photo from Mannakin rather one he took ...

As they say, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence ...
If I have read the Manakin piece correctly, they supplied a car and driver...not a guide. I wonder if any of his birding has been guided......
 
If I have read the Manakin piece correctly, they supplied a car and driver...not a guide. I wonder if any of his birding has been guided......
A further thought. A quick glance at his iGT page suggests that the only species for which a location or date is given are from the current Colombia tour ( i.e. in the few days around reaching 10,000). All other species just name a country. Normally, if transferring records to iGT, at the very least a date would be listed against each species. This suggests to me that this list was compiled by going through the country lists and simply ticking all the claimed species...with no reference to trip reports/ebird submissions/field notes or any of the normal methods of keeping records.
 
The lists can be found here:
Jason Mann
Peter Kaestner

I believe everyone who's interested in world birding knows about Peter Kaestner. He posts regularly on Facebook and is present on eBird, IGoTerra, iNaturalist and surfbirds. I think everybody, including himself, was expecting for him to become the first birder to break 10.000 species. This prompted him to write this piece a few months ago (June 2023), where he details his plans to reach 9.999 species and to get Tufted Puffin in Oregon as number 10.000, together "with [his] loved ones and others who helped [him] over the years.", "sometime in the second half of 2024" as he writes.
Apparently, these plans must have changed drastically, as he has now reached that milestone about half a year earlier than planned and not in Oregon with loved ones, but in the Philippines, where he's supposed to lead a tour in March. It seems that something prompted him to reconsider his lovely idea of sharing his 10.000th bird with family and friends. Although this is purely speculation, perhaps it was the surprising event of a guy called Jason Mann joining iGoTerra in January with a list very close to 10.000 species. It was apparent Jason Mann could edge him out of the record, when he was so incredibly close to it. And as it so happens, both birders claim their 10.000th bird species within a few hours of each other. For Peter Kaestner it was Orange-tufted Spiderhunter on February 9th in Mindanao/Philippines, for Jason it was either Chestnut-bellied Flowerpiercer or Dusky Starfrontlet on February 8th (?) in Colombia (depending on source).
Now here's the problem: Nobody seems to know who Jason Mann is. Everyone knows who Peter Kaestner is. Peter's credibility is as good as it gets, everyone likes him and everything he reports seems plausible. Jason Mann however reports several dozen extremely fishy species, that besides him, no-one has claimed to have seen for decades.
These include the following near-mythical species: Bornean Crestless Fireback, Malayan Crested Argus, Manipur Bush Quail, New Caledonian Nightjar, Bare-legged Swiftlet, Buff-breasted Sabrewing, Nubian Bustard, Purple-winged Ground-dove, Colombian Crake, Zapata Rail, Auckland Rail, Talaud Rail, Buff-breasted Buttonquail, Sulawesi Woodcock, Jerdon's Courser, Chestnut-shouldered Goshawk, Albertine Owlet, Shelley's Eagle-Owl, Manus Dwarf Kingfisher, New Ireland Dwarf Kingfisher, Niam-niam Parrot, Blue-fronted Lorikeet, Red-throated Lorikeet, White-naped Lory, Tachira Antpitta, Stresemann's Bristlefront, Taliabu Myzomela, Rotuma Myzomela, Papuan Whipbird, Western Wattled Cuckooshrike, Eastern Wattled Cuckooshrike, Sooty Shrikethrush, Taliabu Fantail, Vanikoro Monarch, Ogea Monarch, (Iranian Ground Jay), Kordofan Lark, Sassi's Olive Greenbul, (Nauru Reed Warbler), Taliabu Bush Warbler, Dusky Tetraka, Namuli Apalis, Kangean Tit-babbler, Naung Mung Scimitar Babbler, (Bahama Nuthatch), (White-browed Nuthatch), Cozumel Thrasher, Pohnpei Starling, (Javan Pied Myna), Rufous-breasted Blue Flycatcher, Spectacled Flowerpecker, Afghan Snowfinch, Zarudny's Sparrow, Bates's Weaver, Cinnamon Weaver, Yellow-capped Weaver, Ibadan Malimbe, Red Weaver, Shelley's Crimsonwing, Anambra Waxbill, Jambandu Indigobird, Guadalupe Junco, Grey-crowned Palm-Tanager, Selva Cacique, White-faced Whitestart, Guaiquinima Whitestart, Carrizal Seedeater, Duida Grass Finch, Scaled Flowerpiercer, Black Robin, Blackthroat.

All the above mentioned species are extremely rare, virtually no one in the world has seen them. Some haven't been recorded in decades or even centuries. Some occur only in war regions, on islands that can only be visited by scientist, on remote mountains that can only be accessed via helicopter.
Frankly, I don't believe a single one of these species was ever seen by Mr Mann.
It's some of the endemics of Venezuela's most remote tepuis (Duida Grass-Finch, Guaiquinima and White-faced Redstarts) that get me the most

For many of the other birds on that list, I can see how an extremely sloppy and delusional birder could string them "in good faith". There's an old and dubious record of Bates's Weaver from Mount Kupé, for example, and if somebody was there looking for the Cameroon highland endemics I could see them getting a poor look at a female weaver and talking themselves into ticking it as a Bates's. Or flushing a random bird at night in New Caledonia and ticking it as the nightjar. But you cannot even put yourself in position to string (let alone see) a Guaiquinima Redstart unless you were actually on the top of Cerro Guaiquinima! And this entails a huge logistical effort requiring lots of local support. It is impossible to do something like that without anyone in Venezuela actually hearing about it. And the Duida Grass Finch I think is even more remote.

So there's no way he's claiming 10,000 without being willfully deceitful. It's really unfair not only to Peter Kaestner, but also to Manakin Tours, a reputable company he has dragged into this.
 
I would guess this is the same person breaking records in 2007.

And if he was training as a doctor back then he has achieved a lot in 16 years per LinkedIn, whilst also finding the time to see so many birds.
The 2007 post claims a world record of birds seen during a single one month solo trip - his second to Neotropics. With some stretch of imagination anyone could claim such feat but few would believe it to be true. To claim the 10.000 milestone he would have had to go on in a similar manner since then.

I checked his his medical research record as it's incidentally my field and it seems ok, a dozen well-cited publications in reputable journals during PhD studies including a couple as the main author and nothing thereafter.
 
The 2007 post claims a world record of birds seen during a single one month solo trip - his second to Neotropics. With some stretch of imagination anyone could claim such feat but few would believe it to be true. To claim the 10.000 milestone he would have had to go on in a similar manner since then.

I checked his his medical research record as it's incidentally my field and it seems ok, a dozen well-cited publications in reputable journals during PhD studies including a couple as the main author and nothing thereafter.

It would seem to be pure fantasy that someone with no experience of South American birding would achieve this solo however much time was spent genning up before hand.
 
The 2007 post claims a world record of birds seen during a single one month solo trip - his second to Neotropics. With some stretch of imagination anyone could claim such feat but few would believe it to be true.

Even leaving aside the species total, which again could be achieved through "good faith" stringing, it's the logistical details of that trip that just don't ring true. If he had a rental car he wasn't on a tight budget, so could presumably afford the few extra dollars it would cost to sleep in a bed, plus the car malfunctions "way out in the jungle" just doesn't sound right. Reaching the more remote spots would entail some other form of transport (river travel, motorcycle, walking, locally sourced 4x4 vehicles), there's not a whole lot of birding spots in Ecuador that are both way out in the jungle and reachable by car.
 
I just double-checked. I'm quite surprised by the number of these that Peter also claims:
Zapata Rail, Buff-breasted Buttonquail, Jerdon's Courser, Chestnut-shouldered Goshawk, Albertine Owlet, Western Wattled Cuckooshrike, Sooty Shrikethrush, Dusky Tetraka, Bahama Nuthatch, Cozumel Thrasher, Afghan Snowfinch, Ibadan Malimbe, Shelley's Crimsonwing, Red Weaver, Jambandu Indigobird, Grey-crowned Palm-tanager and Blackthroat.
Almost all of these seem in the kinda believable range, but two stick out to me: the Buttonquail and the Tetraka.
Having just been to Cuba recently, the Zapata Rail hasn't been seen in ages - that last claimed but unconfirmed sighting was a decade ago?
 
Having just been to Cuba recently, the Zapata Rail hasn't been seen in ages - that last claimed but unconfirmed sighting was a decade ago?

Editing my comment as I've found an account of the claimed sighting:
 
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The lists can be found here:
Jason Mann
Peter Kaestner

I believe everyone who's interested in world birding knows about Peter Kaestner. He posts regularly on Facebook and is present on eBird, IGoTerra, iNaturalist and surfbirds. I think everybody, including himself, was expecting for him to become the first birder to break 10.000 species. This prompted him to write this piece a few months ago (June 2023), where he details his plans to reach 9.999 species and to get Tufted Puffin in Oregon as number 10.000, together "with [his] loved ones and others who helped [him] over the years.", "sometime in the second half of 2024" as he writes.
Apparently, these plans must have changed drastically, as he has now reached that milestone about half a year earlier than planned and not in Oregon with loved ones, but in the Philippines, where he's supposed to lead a tour in March. It seems that something prompted him to reconsider his lovely idea of sharing his 10.000th bird with family and friends. Although this is purely speculation, perhaps it was the surprising event of a guy called Jason Mann joining iGoTerra in January with a list very close to 10.000 species. It was apparent Jason Mann could edge him out of the record, when he was so incredibly close to it. And as it so happens, both birders claim their 10.000th bird species within a few hours of each other. For Peter Kaestner it was Orange-tufted Spiderhunter on February 9th in Mindanao/Philippines, for Jason it was either Chestnut-bellied Flowerpiercer or Dusky Starfrontlet on February 8th (?) in Colombia (depending on source).
Now here's the problem: Nobody seems to know who Jason Mann is. Everyone knows who Peter Kaestner is. Peter's credibility is as good as it gets, everyone likes him and everything he reports seems plausible. Jason Mann however reports several dozen extremely fishy species, that besides him, no-one has claimed to have seen for decades.
These include the following near-mythical species: Bornean Crestless Fireback, Malayan Crested Argus, Manipur Bush Quail, New Caledonian Nightjar, Bare-legged Swiftlet, Buff-breasted Sabrewing, Nubian Bustard, Purple-winged Ground-dove, Colombian Crake, Zapata Rail, Auckland Rail, Talaud Rail, Buff-breasted Buttonquail, Sulawesi Woodcock, Jerdon's Courser, Chestnut-shouldered Goshawk, Albertine Owlet, Shelley's Eagle-Owl, Manus Dwarf Kingfisher, New Ireland Dwarf Kingfisher, Niam-niam Parrot, Blue-fronted Lorikeet, Red-throated Lorikeet, White-naped Lory, Tachira Antpitta, Stresemann's Bristlefront, Taliabu Myzomela, Rotuma Myzomela, Papuan Whipbird, Western Wattled Cuckooshrike, Eastern Wattled Cuckooshrike, Sooty Shrikethrush, Taliabu Fantail, Vanikoro Monarch, Ogea Monarch, (Iranian Ground Jay), Kordofan Lark, Sassi's Olive Greenbul, (Nauru Reed Warbler), Taliabu Bush Warbler, Dusky Tetraka, Namuli Apalis, Kangean Tit-babbler, Naung Mung Scimitar Babbler, (Bahama Nuthatch), (White-browed Nuthatch), Cozumel Thrasher, Pohnpei Starling, (Javan Pied Myna), Rufous-breasted Blue Flycatcher, Spectacled Flowerpecker, Afghan Snowfinch, Zarudny's Sparrow, Bates's Weaver, Cinnamon Weaver, Yellow-capped Weaver, Ibadan Malimbe, Red Weaver, Shelley's Crimsonwing, Anambra Waxbill, Jambandu Indigobird, Guadalupe Junco, Grey-crowned Palm-Tanager, Selva Cacique, White-faced Whitestart, Guaiquinima Whitestart, Carrizal Seedeater, Duida Grass Finch, Scaled Flowerpiercer, Black Robin, Blackthroat.

All the above mentioned species are extremely rare, virtually no one in the world has seen them. Some haven't been recorded in decades or even centuries. Some occur only in war regions, on islands that can only be visited by scientist, on remote mountains that can only be accessed via helicopter.
Frankly, I don't believe a single one of these species was ever seen by Mr Mann.
Quite a few of these are seeable - I've seen 8/9 of them at least - but this whole list is the stuff of dreams. Even to see both wattled cuckooshrikes is remarkable. But the Nightjar is the one that stands out to me the most I guess. And the tepui endemics as mentioned before.

There has been a deluge of chatter generated by this claim in the last 24h. I've had many people message me to see if I know this guy, or have birded with him. Which I haven't. Interestingly, his lifer Collared Inca was apparently very recent - this alone seems incredible to me, for someone with 10k birds who has birded the Andes thoroughly. Collared Inca is a common, widespread, conspicuous, easily-identified hummer that comes to feeders :D

If it is a fake list, I find it equally bizarre. Even if you accept the motivation, why would you 'list' Manipur BQ, New Caledonia Nightjar or Scaled Flowerpiercer? There are >11k species to choose from, so pick things that are a little more credible.

If it's a real list, with misidentifications or strung species added, that's even sadder. His real list must be >9k which is a huge achievement in itself.
 
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In the spirit of fairness, I think Peter Kaestner would also need to provide provenance for some of the records listed in this thread for them to be completely credible. Zapata Rail is obviously one. Dusky Tetraka was heavily strung for years at Masoala, and has only very recently been "re-discovered". There's no record on eBird of him having twitched it since, so there has to be a significant question mark here. It would be disappointing if he did tick it at Masoala in good faith and didn't remove it from his list.

Shelley's Crimsonwing is another eyebrow raiser. I recall a friend telling me that the highly regarded SW Ugandan guide Alfred Twinomujini had only ever seen it once.

Buff-breasted Button Quail is an interesting one, with near Night Parrot levels of Aussie intrigue and acrimony over it's continued existence. I think you would need to bring your A-game to convince skeptics over having it on your list!
 
Interestingly, his lifer Collared Inca was apparently very recent - this alone seems incredible to me, for someone with 10k birds who has birded the Andes thoroughly. Collared Inca is a common, widespread, conspicuous, easily-identified hummer that comes to feeders :D

Before I saw any of the birds he is claiming, I saw this, and it also struck me as more than just odd... really nonsensical and borderline impossible.
 
Just the fact that he allegedly reached 10,000 on the same day as Peter Kaestner makes the whole thing suspect in my view.

Also, it seems that no one knows who this guy is. I used to know one of the top world listers before he passed away. He told me that if you want to be a big lister, you have to put your name out there and post your numbers publicly (at that time Surfbirds seemed to be the website of choice.) Otherwise, if you show up out of nowhere, no one will take your list seriously and you will have no credibility. He said all the top listers know each other, either personally or by reputation, and they all know about where their “competition” stands. That obviously wasn’t the case here.

Just my two cents.

Dave
 
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