Uk Peregrine Population Limit? (1 Viewer)

[HelenW]

Ah yes, the old 'There are two sides to every argument - mine and the wrong one' attitude so beloved by those who can't cope.

If you've got time to spare, do us a favour and count the Feral Pigeons in Trafalgar Square, please.

Flippin' Ek... :eek!: you girls need a kitkat break...

listen, I'm sure can find a couple of handbags, I bring them along at dawn.. o

um... can anyone recommend a good spot? 3

 

[Collster]

Oh dear, oh dear, talk about shooting yourself in the foot! What's that you've got written under your name?

"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people."

Perhaps you should consider changing your name to 'Hopalong'!

Now then, when I asked the original question, quoting exactly where I had got it from don't forget, that was all I wanted an answer to. Why not look back and see how quickly the 'BF Spoilers' tried to take it off thread and also notice one very important thing - it wasn't any of my doing. That came from my giving factual answers to the multitude of other comments and questions which were posted. So whatever else you do, DON'T accuse me of changing tack!

Note also that I was not responsible for introducing the topic of racing and/or feral pigeons to the thread but others felt compelled to do so, probably in an unsuccessful attempt to have the thread locked or removed. Consequently it was only right in my opinion to give factual answers to the more serious comments and questions whenever I was allowed to, because in that way other members might be able to learn something they perhaps didn't know.

You really do have some nerve coming out with crap like that. Re read half of your postings and then say that they are factual answers. You are quick to put down people with your quips, trouble is you throw your rings out of the loft when you get it back. Why would anyone want the thread closed, we are all enjoying you giving us an alternative slant on reality, most amusing dude.

 

[London Birder]

VB I wouldn't bother giving the guy your senses mate ... your wasting your time IMHO

 

[Anthony Morton]

I don't believe anyone here has ever suggested that they are responsible for every raptor death or every nesting failure, Anthony.

Yet that is exactly the impression being given to the casual observer by the implications contained in far too many postings. Even you have been selective by only quoting part of my posting, the full version of which reads;

I can accept that pigeon fanciers may belong on the list, along with egg collectors, shooting interests etc., but I flatly refuse to accept that they are single-handedly responsible for the death of every raptor, or the failure of their nests.

Surely there can be no doubts as to its meaning, can there? As to blaming only pigeon fanciers, please read what follows.

Could you give a reference, or are you just trying to put words into mouths again?

It's taken me a while, but I have checked through all the posts on this thread and noted 25 separate occasions where pigeon fanciers alone are being blamed specifically for the deaths of Peregrine Falcons. This number does not include several instances where other groups or interests are also blamed in addition to pigeon fanciers. Yet as has also been said on more than one occasion by more than one poster, there is not a shred of evidence to support these claims.

That's not to say that raptor persecution isn't happening because it clearly is, or that pigeon fanciers are necessarily innocent, but it is NOT sufficient to constantly point the finger in their direction without any tangible evidence or proof whatsoever. This fact has also been mentioned by other members. I have kept a list of the 25 postings I am specifically referring to and it is glaringly obvious that the lion's share are the responsibility of just one member, who is also one of your compatriots and seems to be carrying out a personal vendetta against all pigeon fanciers.

In my opinion this is a clear case of mud-slinging in the hope that at least some will stick. And how long will it take before the usual protagonists feel compelled to dip their oar in yet again?

 

[Anthony Morton]

something wrong with counting them?

lots of homers/racers there pal ...

Now isn't that strange, the last time I checked the pigeons in Trafalgar Square there wasn't even one with a ring on its leg to identify it as a racer - and I know exactly what I'm looking for.

Perhaps if there were any they had sensibly gone into hiding to avoid the local hookey-beaked brigade.

"Bandits in the sun, Ginger - make Angels One-Five. Tally-ho! Out."


Good 'ere, innit?

 

[London Birder]

look closer next time ... my last count there was of c1,200 of which 6 were wearing colured rings (current population numbers up to 200-ish), I was looking for the ringed birds specifically ... in 63 hours of eyrie watching in '05 saw one racer taken in to young, many ferals.

edit: above should read 68 hours, not 63 ... speaking of shreds of evidence, where's the evidence for the statement that up to 10 pigeons are required for an eyrie per day (a statement made by your fellow PF's), where?

 

[Jos Stratford]

I don't believe anyone here has ever suggested that they are responsible for every raptor death or every nesting failure, Anthony.

It's taken me a while, but I have checked through all the posts on this thread and noted 25 separate occasions where pigeon fanciers alone are being blamed specifically for the deaths of Peregrine Falcons.

I have kept a list of the 25 postings I am specifically referring to and it is glaringly obvious that the lion's share are the responsibility of just one member, who is also one of your compatriots and seems to be carrying out a personal vendetta against all pigeon fanciers.

Leads one to wonder about either your reading or comprehension skills. You are responding to the comment by Andrew Rowlands, where he clearly talks of the nationwide picture. Valley Boy, as you clearly refer to, has not suggested pigeon fanciers are not responsible for every raptor death and nest failure in the country, he refers (as is clear) to the nests he observes and records and in these cases discounts other persecutors. I would say he is in a better position to comment on these cases than you

Show one specific example, just one, where he stated every raptor death nationwide was due to pigeon fanciers.

 

[Richard D]

Snail fanciers calling for the slaughter of Song Thrushes?

Sorry I think I dreamed it when I nodded off...

 

[London Birder]

Snail fanciers calling for the slaughter of Song Thrushes?

Sorry I think I dreamed it when I nodded off...

yep, amounts to about the same thing ...

 

[pianoman]

Presumably if every feral pigeon (and racer) disappeared there'd still be an ample supply of woodpigeons. My local peregrines never eat anything else...

Forgive me if it's been mentioned already

 

[London Birder]

that's fairly unusual in my experience.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

... but I flatly refuse to accept that they are single-handedly responsible for the death of every raptor, or the failure of their nests.

I still don't believe anyone here has ever suggested that they are responsible for every raptor death or every nesting failure, Anthony.

Could you give a reference, or are you just trying to put words into mouths again?

Yet that is exactly the impression being given to the casual observer by the implications contained in far too many postings. Even you have been selective by only quoting part of my posting, the full version of which reads;

I can accept that pigeon fanciers may belong on the list, along with egg collectors, shooting interests etc., but I flatly refuse to accept that they are single-handedly responsible for the death of every raptor, or the failure of their nests.

Who is this casual observer exactly, Anthony?

Surely there can be no doubts as to its meaning, can there? As to blaming only pigeon fanciers, please read what follows.



It's taken me a while, but I have checked through all the posts on this thread and noted 25 separate occasions where pigeon fanciers alone are being blamed specifically for the deaths of Peregrine Falcons. This number does not include several instances where other groups or interests are also blamed in addition to pigeon fanciers. Yet as has also been said on more than one occasion by more than one poster, there is not a shred of evidence to support these claims.

That's not to say that raptor persecution isn't happening because it clearly is, or that pigeon fanciers are necessarily innocent, but it is NOT sufficient to constantly point the finger in their direction without any tangible evidence or proof whatsoever. This fact has also been mentioned by other members. I have kept a list of the 25 postings I am specifically referring to and it is glaringly obvious that the lion's share are the responsibility of just one member, who is also one of your compatriots and seems to be carrying out a personal vendetta against all pigeon fanciers.

So you can't or won't give references? If so, why don't you just say so (it'll save the rest of us reading your waffle)?

Perhaps this is yet another case whereby you deliberately take highly localised issues and try to spin them to a nationwide perspective?

 

[Osprey_watcher]

Yet that is exactly the impression being given to the casual observer by the implications contained in far too many postings. Even you have been selective by only quoting part of my posting, the full version of which reads;

Boll*cks

I can accept that pigeon fanciers may belong on the list, along with egg collectors, shooting interests etc., but I flatly refuse to accept that they are single-handedly responsible for the death of every raptor, or the failure of their nests.

Surely there can be no doubts as to its meaning, can there? As to blaming only pigeon fanciers, please read what follows.



It's taken me a while, but I have checked through all the posts on this thread and noted 25 separate occasions where pigeon fanciers alone are being blamed specifically for the deaths of Peregrine Falcons. This number does not include several instances where other groups or interests are also blamed in addition to pigeon fanciers. Yet as has also been said on more than one occasion by more than one poster, there is not a shred of evidence to support these claims.

Would make sense if you said Flying rat fanciers were blamed for specific deaths. Which is the case. I acn't see anywhere that it states that they are soley responsible for persecution of raptors.

 

[Osprey_watcher]

Now isn't that strange, the last time I checked the pigeons in Trafalgar Square there wasn't even one with a ring on its leg to identify it as a racer - and I know exactly what I'm looking for.

Must take years of training to be able to spot a ring on a birds leg.

 

[Collster]

Yet that is exactly the impression being given to the casual observer by the implications contained in far too many postings. Even you have been selective by only quoting part of my posting, the full version of which reads;

I can accept that pigeon fanciers may belong on the list, along with egg collectors, shooting interests etc., but I flatly refuse to accept that they are single-handedly responsible for the death of every raptor, or the failure of their nests.

Surely there can be no doubts as to its meaning, can there? As to blaming only pigeon fanciers, please read what follows.



It's taken me a while, but I have checked through all the posts on this thread and noted 25 separate occasions where pigeon fanciers alone are being blamed specifically for the deaths of Peregrine Falcons. This number does not include several instances where other groups or interests are also blamed in addition to pigeon fanciers. Yet as has also been said on more than one occasion by more than one poster, there is not a shred of evidence to support these claims.

That's not to say that raptor persecution isn't happening because it clearly is, or that pigeon fanciers are necessarily innocent, but it is NOT sufficient to constantly point the finger in their direction without any tangible evidence or proof whatsoever. This fact has also been mentioned by other members. I have kept a list of the 25 postings I am specifically referring to and it is glaringly obvious that the lion's share are the responsibility of just one member, who is also one of your compatriots and seems to be carrying out a personal vendetta against all pigeon fanciers.

In my opinion this is a clear case of mud-slinging in the hope that at least some will stick. And how long will it take before the usual protagonists feel compelled to dip their oar in yet again?

As i've previously eliminated your list of suspects, gamekeepers, taxidermists etc thats who's left. I have asked you this before, but i'll ask again who do you think it is just targeting Peregrine falcons then?

 

[Collster]

that's fairly unusual in my experience.

mine too, they stick low over the forests down here and are nippy to boot, Goshawks seem to like them tho.

 

[Collster]

Must take years of training to be able to spot a ring on a birds leg.

i just wait till after the breeding season and get my rings off the ledges, much easier

 

[Collster]

Anthony i'm not waging a vendetta, as i've told you i know PF and some are ok, but the majority of their views are against raptors. Stop coming out with rubbish about me as im getting fed up with your wild utterings with bugger all to back up what you say.I have reread what i've written and once again cannot see what you are on about. Do you suffer any other symptoms apart from this ability to see the opposite to whats written. I live here and have an active interest in Peregrines, i have a license( as you know) that enables me to study them at the nest site. I gather rings, record kills of any bird, and generally try and keep an eye on whats been going on. I dont get paid for this , i do it because i appreciate nature and didn't like the fact that incidents were going unrecorded due to remoteness of some sites. So now im in a position to know whats going on, don't know exactly who is responsible , but i long ago established on who's behalf these people were and are acting. Can you , for the benifit of others explain what you are basing your opinions on as you obviously have no first hand experience of the situation in the valleys. Stick to what you know and stop trying to tell me that PF aint behind whats going on down here because i know they are. ps I think your signing off quips are great, but i reckon its another symptom

 

[AndyS]

I don't believe anyone here has ever suggested that they are responsible for every raptor death or every nesting failure, Anthony.

Yet that is exactly the impression being given to the casual observer by the implications contained in far too many postings.

As a casual observer (believe me I am - I'm only here by chance ), it is definitely NOT the impression that I have come away with. Mine is one of someone (i.e. you Anthony ) who is trying to take rat.. err sorry pigeon... fanciers out of the equation as being any threat at all to raptors.

Even you have been selective by only quoting part of my posting, the full version of which reads;

I can accept that pigeon fanciers may belong on the list, along with egg collectors, shooting interests etc., but I flatly refuse to accept that they are single-handedly responsible for the death of every raptor, or the failure of their nests.

Surely there can be no doubts as to its meaning, can there? As to blaming only pigeon fanciers,

My interpretation of your text is that you still don't believe that rat fanciers should be in the list, but you are grudgingly accepting they could be on the list... if you were pushed.. and someone proved it to you.. etc... Change the word MAY to DO.. go on.. I dare you ||

But hey, what do I know, I'm only a casual reader, what can a fresh pair of eyes bring to an argument :h?:

 

[AndyS]

PS.. I have read the whole tread.. I found it quite amusing to be honest... and the only reason I posted.. To all those "fighting" with Anthony... to the casual observer.. you've won.. hands down