Uk400club 'list Of Lists' Etc Etc (2 Viewers)

[Jane Turner]

How about a Bird Forum Skeptics list?

The rules are that you (or a snitch) have to be able to point out electronic evidence that you have cast doubts on the legitimacy of a record on a public forum, but you have to be a member of BF to compete. Whether you were proved right or wrong or the number of times that you said it is immaterial. Anyone who wants to can be on it,and anyone who wants off need only say.

Should you subsequently retract your criticism, I'll italicise the record. Should you shuffle off this mortal coil or be banned from BF you will be in green ink.

I have a gut feeling that Alan should be in the lead. IBWO is a tart's tick

 

[Robin Edwards]

The wonders of Human Psychology! There must be uni grads rubbing their hands with glee after reading this thread. I dare say a few medical students as well.
A suggested, light-hearted approach to listing could be to keep your list to yourself. Get it out as regularly as you like when there’s no birding on offer and gaze in wonderment at it’s size. Manipulate it if you like to make it even bigger. But please, don’t ever try and play with my list, OK?

By the way I've started a new private database of those that I think would be manipulators of their own list and those that might have a tendancy to play with other folk's lists.

 

[Johnny Allan]

This list thing is getting silly. Who in their right mind would take legal action over a list of birds seen (or not seen) grow up ffs. Is it that important to people ?. This is a hobby. Do these people realise how stupid they are sounding, banging on about a list of birds. Do you have nothing else in your life to care about.Personally i wouldn't care less if i was on a list or not, Its just willy waving nonsense .If you have your own records that is all that counts not what somebody else thinks you have or have not seen. I'm no more a man if ive seen 500 birds than others who have seen 200. Like i said just grow a pair ffs.

A classic Birdforum post by someone who doesn't leave a name (one complaint of Lee's with which I agree).

let's turn your argument the other way round 'who in their right mind would respond to a polite request to have their data removed (with sensible reasons given for doing so), with abuse and a point blank refusal' ?

It's up to you whether you care that your list is on there or not, it's not up to you whether your list is there if you 'qualify', it's compulsory. I prefer choice.

Good luck to you if you don't care about this, you are entitled to your opinion but dont expect that everyone should fall in with your point of view.

You follow your opinion with insult including the well worn 'do you have nothing else in your life to care about'. Well you cared enough to post.

Birding is a hobby, twitching and listing is the 'sport' side of birding. In all sport, politics is unavoidable. I saw it in my own sport and take a look at Football or Boxing for example. This Uk400 nonsense with it's Micky Mouse lists and taxonomy is more about politics than birding and IMO created more for self-aggrandizement than any other reason. I want no part of it.

I will not throw money at having my data removed but will have it removed if possible, there are simple steps which can be taken. All of this could be totally avoidable with a few magnanimous taps of the UK400 Club key board.

Right, back to birding my patch. What are you doing today ?

Kind regards

Johnny Allan

 

[Lee Evans]

Well Johnny, I would assume most people are WORKING (eg, trying to make a living). They don't have the luxury of going out birding everyday like you and I. Hence why really, most people probably don't give a damn about the lists, because they realise that they are never going to compete with the 54 'top listers' on there who don't give a damn about anything else in their life and can just 'move' at the drop of a hat for that next rare. It has never been a level playing field and never will. People have rightly said that there is little chance of catching any of the leaders up unless of course some of them die. And Jonathan Lethbridge with his fabulous website entry has hit the nail on the head - it probably won't be long before many more of the names are in green/italics.

And Jane, surely you are not serious here and are just having a bit of a pisstake. You carp on continuously about me challenging or rubbishing records, surely making this into a competition will make discussions such as the one on this thread the norm. Birders just don't like getting on with each other - especially in June and July when it quietens down a bit.

 

[rollingthunder]

I would like to meet this Jonty Denton, sounds an interesting character - if by 'pan' you mean 'all' or 'of everything' that has to make him the Worlds top lister as he would appear to have seen every spp on the planet including finding one himself! BTW do you know which species that was?

All the best -

Laurie -

 

[James Lowther]

pan species = all (animal and plant?) species
not all bird species

 

[Strandman]

pan species = all (animal and plant?) species
not all bird species

jd's 10,000 Britain and Ireland list here, broken down into handy categories: http://markgtelfer.co.uk/listing/1st/

 

[Jane Turner]

And Jane, surely you are not serious here and are just having a bit of a pisstake. You carp on continuously about me challenging or rubbishing records, surely making this into a competition will make discussions such as the one on this thread the norm. Birders just don't like getting on with each other - especially in June and July when it quietens down a bit.

Well spotted... its called parody

 

[Frenchy]

Are there any handy "tick lists" for pan-species listing? Guess not considering the work involved, but be nice if there was.

 

[Matt Prince]

Laurie - pan-species - means everything counts not just birds - Mark Telfers covers it on his excellent website.

Therefore Jonty has seen only 306 birds in the UK, but his list of 10,246 species of life in the UK includes 2587 species of beetle.

By contrast Dave Gibbs - and apologies to Dave if he doesn't want his name bandied about - was last listed at 9506 - of which he's seen 485 species of bird in the UK, and it is he who has discovered three new species of fly, in the UK. (That is - new to the world - found in the UK)

Agromyza audcenti Gibbs, 2004
Chyromya britannica Gibbs, 2007
Leiomyza birkheadi Gibbs, 2006

The two aren't that far adrift on totals - but you can't compare there totals in anything other than the most basic numerical sense. Once a beetle guy, the other a fly guy.

 

[Matt Prince]

Frenchy - I've been gradually accruing checklists - there are quite a few dotted around on the various websites. The accrual is the easy bit - ongoing maintenance will probably prove to be an absolute 'mare. (so far I've got moths, spiders, some of the hymenoptera and diptera, beetles WIP) The problem being that unlike bird checklists, the entymologists like to break things down into families, tribes, include synonyms etc.

Checklists are probably worthy of a thread in its own right, if its not already covered....

 

[pppppvvvv]

Surprised you haven't heard of the UK4,000 club for Pan-UK listing, of which I am self-appointed judge, jury and executioner?

Anyway, I've decided to publish my list that I keep of UK Naturalists' totals...

1st: Jonty Denton (10,246)
2nd: Dave Gibbs (9,506)
3rd: Mark Telfer (6,127)
4th: Malcolm Storey (5,284)
5th: Graeme Lyons (3,376)
6th: Martin Harvey (3,370)
7th: Sarah Patton (2,760)
8th: Steve Gale (2,713)
9th: Rob Woodall (2,328)
10th: Josh Jenkins-Shaw (1,184)
joint 11th: Johnny Allen and Lee Evans (1,183 combined)

 

[Lee Evans]

Blimey - I thought I was sad in doing what I do. How on earth could you ever keep tabs on compiling lists like that - incredible. I wouldn't be able to identify more than one species of beetle, let alone 2,400 - that takes listing into a separate orbit.

 

[pppppvvvv]

Blimey - I thought I was sad in doing what I do. How on earth could you ever keep tabs on compiling lists like that - incredible. I wouldn't be able to identify more than one species of beetle, let alone 2,400 - that takes listing into a separate orbit.

Only one Beetle eh..

I've just revised your list then..

joint 11th: Johnny Allen and Lee Evans (783 combined)

 

[Matt Prince]

Oi the wife and I should be in joint 9th with 2500+

41 species of beetle, just over 1% of the British list....

 

[Matt Prince]

Blimey - I thought I was sad in doing what I do. How on earth could you ever keep tabs on compiling lists like that - incredible. I wouldn't be able to identify more than one species of beetle, let alone 2,400 - that takes listing into a separate orbit.

C'mon in Lee, we could do with someone to organise the stampede next time a vagrant dragonfly/grasshopper/hoverfly/fish/orchid/lichen/moss is found.

 

[Lee Evans]

Matt

I have dabbled a little bit in dragonflies and orchids, obviously love butterflies but am hopeless at moth/micromoth identification and know virtually nothing about the identification of grasses, mosses, beetles, wasps, bees and many other forms of nature. I wish I did though as I always envy the likes of Chris Heard, Dave Gibbs and Tony Viles in their immense variety of identification skills in such things but I just don't get the time to become involved and absorbed in these new worlds of wildlife.

 

[DunnoKev]

Blimey - I thought I was sad in doing what I do. How on earth could you ever keep tabs on compiling lists like that - incredible. I wouldn't be able to identify more than one species of beetle, let alone 2,400 - that takes listing into a separate orbit.

A belated congrats to Mr Denton. Interesting last paragraph in that Jonty link:
"Jonty has somehow found time for non-naturalist activities too. He has 1,540 model aircraft including virtually every RAF combat aircraft ever, (which may be the largest collection of its kind), over 100 British railway locomotives, and has been to every English cathedral. Are there any documentary-makers reading this?!"

1) Time for other collections? Impressive stuff, but surely they must mean model railway locomotives of some sort? If not, he's got a ruddy big garden.

2) Does anyone on this thread have the number of a documentary maker then?

On the same site you can find Mark Telfer's intro to his pan-listing list of listers..
"My purpose in putting together these rankings is not so much to encourage competition between listers but to encourage camaraderie amongst like-minded naturalists – and it’s worked really well. I know several other people who have been inspired to work out their pan-species lists (it can be quite a big job!). I’d love to hear from anyone who’d like to be added to the rankings, even if you only have an estimated list total at the moment.."

Ah, now that's the way to do it.

 

[username]

Being a birder for over forty years…[and twitching since the early seventies]….my views on ‘listing’ have moderated somewhat…

Old habits die hard and I still love a ‘good chase’ but have become…[I think]…a bit more relaxed about the whole thing….[although I still get an adrenaline kick when something really special turns up]…:cat:

Numbers mumbo jumbo….it really isn’t supposed to be ‘that’ serious, not to me anyway, tho I do appreciate that it is for some folks…so I’m not knocking anyone who is that dedicated…[or should that be ‘medicated']…?

Re. lists…..i would still be a big fan of identifiable ‘forms in the field’…regardless of whatever authority splitting and lumping all over the shop.

All the best to all…..:t:

http://username-beast.blogspot.com/

 

[Matt Prince]

I guess that's why most people specialise Lee, its easy to know a little about a lot, but you can only ever know a lot about very little - if you see what I mean.