Hi John - I was referring to the buteo races breeding in Northern/Central China and Manchuria - which apparently winter in Southern China and SE Asia (and possibly South Korea) - distinct from the breeding populations in NE India/Nepal. As Richard Klim refers to here
Post in thread ''Himalayan Buzzard''
https://www.birdforum.net/threads/himalayan-buzzard.132483/post-2528582
“[
Burmanicus/refectus is believed to be a migrant from a northern breeding range including Manchuria.]” (in red below for those like me whose geography is appalling 😉)
There are clearly several distinct populations of ‘
burmanicus/refectus’ - are you saying in your view, they are all restricted to the Himalayan chain?
https://www.researchgate.net/profil...m-the-Himalayas.pdf?origin=publication_detail States that:
“
We are satisfied that burmanicus is a migrant from a northern breeding range including Manchuria.“
It‘s the above populations that I was suggesting may (??) winter further South in the Korean peninsular
Jalid further states that the ”
breeding distribution of Himalayan buzzards extends far to the north in Chinese mountains and it is almost certain that buzzards there are more migratory compared to the Himalaya.” Although he was referring to difficulty in separating on plumage wintering
japonicus and
burmanicus in Thailand and the occurance of Himalayan in SE Asia not those wintering in the lower latitudes of E Asia! (sorry lost the link will try and recover it) EDIT HERE
Post in thread 'Buteo identification north Thailand'
https://www.birdforum.net/threads/buteo-identification-north-thailand.371194/post-3800127
He also states “
Himalayan Buzzard and East Asian Buzzard (or whatever you like to call those buzzards of japonicus group, which breed in eastern Asia and spend their winter in S China and SE Asia) are very difficult to separate. I have tried to learn but only found out some average tendencies. Those average distinctions have not helped me to understand what is the relative status of Himalayan and East Asian Buzzards in SE Asia.”
I too was referring to IOC range maps on an Indian Buzzard thread and ruling out
japonicus on the Southern Indian continent (West of the Himalayan chain). At the time, Jalid pointed out the boundaries of these races were unresolved (as is the taxonomy) but that wasn’t reflected in the range maps. I therefore got the impression (in error?) that due to the difficulties in separating the two races on some of the plumage types, (ie the paler individuals), ID of Himalayan outside of its breeding range in Asia was therefore probably unreliable some/much? of the time.. (Which floored me completely).
It really doesn’t help when sources and literature can’t agree - that’s partly the source of confusion perhaps!?
Of course if all races breeding east of the spine of the Himalayan chain were lumped into ‘Japanese Buzzard‘ and all those West of the spine, lumped into
vulpinus/burmanicus Himalayan Buzzard, would that simplify anything? Or perhaps that’s already being done? However it still wouldn’t resolve the issue of identifying wintering Himalayan/Eastern away from their breeding grounds.
Btw - interesting treatment update for SE Asia (not Korea!)
Posts about Eastern Buzzard written by TAN Gim Cheong
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