Upton Warren (1 Viewer)

[woodwolf]

Spent the afternoon with 'Crofty' junior at the Moors. A bit quiet
with highlights being two small Peregrines, presumably young males flying north over the Moors.
Spent a good few hours listening for water rail and cettis - but not a squeak!
Duck count: Teal 12, Shoveler 6, Shelduck pr, Tufted 24, Pochard 14.
Possibly as a result of the work party in the SE corner of Amy's marsh waders were few and far between with a snipe and 14 lapwing. I never visited the Flashes where good numbers of Snipe and lapwings were present.
The massive influx of large gulls 2 weeks ago didn't materialize today with just 10 Herrings and 5 LBBG's.
4 Ravens headed north and 17 reed buntings roosted in a small patch of reeds in the Southern area.
B John

Hi John
Long time no see. I think Dave W had a Water Rail sighting today, I camped out in the WR hide for 20 mins during my brief vist this morning but heard/saw nowt. 3 Lesser Redpoll showed well on the track near Lifestyles, Shelduck a Lifer for me today. I left around ...5 past :-O

 

[midlands birder]

Tell me when you've all finished slating photographers and I'll (reluctantly) retort. Not a single bird spooked, harmed or stressed during the taking of any of these photos. Yes I was in a purpose built hide but I could quite easily have been in my portable pop-up...

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2039371&postcount=141

Hi Sy - I dont think MB was tarring all photographers with the same brush and his comments were supported by Jason. Photography is an important part of birding and in recent years has helped to identify several new birds to the UK as well broadening the appeal of birding with stunning shots of many of the birds found in the UK but perhaps outside your average dude's knowledge. I would be the first to admit there is also irresponsible behaviour with birders / twitchers (straying on to private land / off the path, getting too close, harrassing a clearly weakened bird, being too noisy, cutting back vegetation etc).
All inappropriate actions - whether by birders and photographers - should be challanged and explained to the individuals as to why they are not acceptable. I look forward to all those interested in wildlife and taking a responsible attitude towards it visiting Upton this year and sharing in its environment and experiences.

Phil

MB.
I can quite understand that you're not to keen on photographers. It does seem that we have overtaken Cats, Dog walkers and all else as public enemy number one.
I can inform you that no one with a long telephoto lens would try to get within touching distance of a bird.
I have three of the ridiculous lenses that you dislike so much and the minimum focusing distance is between 3M and 5M. Any nearer is a waste of time as you couldn't focus. Realistically the optimum distance for a medium sized bird would be 5-8 metres distance.
Thanks and best regards, Mike.

For all photographers.
like i stated and has jase, we are not classing all photographers here, and i did say at the time that it wasent any of the regular photographers at the warren, i understand there are photographers out there who do spend the money and oftern considerable time to get the pictures they are after, and take extroudinary lenghts to get them, but i was aiming my posts at those unconsiderate photographers who dont care about the bird, the viewers or anything just to get 'that shot'.
i agree with phil, birders act irrisponsibly to, proberbly for even more selfish reasons than photographers ( litterally no excuse for getting to close to a bird just to watch it, when you have a scope etc), with modern scopes/ telephoto lenses, surely the point of getting too close to a bird isnt worth it anymore as these lenses/scopes can ID a bird from considerable distance.

mike- it seems like you have judged what i think by the 2 post i made, i have absolutly no problem with photographers, and i have many photographer friends, at no point did i say i didnt like photographers, i enjoy seeing pictures of 'exotic' birds around the country which i would never be able to see, and as phil said, withour photographers, we wouldnt have the likes of Eastern-crowned warbler, etc etc on our lists, photography has become as important nowadays in birding that it is overtaking notes, a photo that you can prove was taken where it was is worth alot more than alot of things, and without a photo records dont mean much. i am a keen digiscoper ( not a very good one btw) and enjoy taking photos of birds i see, but arnt really to fussed about what the picture is like if you can tell what the bird is) i enjoy watching birds/ photographers like taking photos of them, i dont see the problem.
my posts was aimed at the photographers (who you cant deny dont exist) who do oftern get to close to birds/ flush them/ and then give photographers a bad name.

and on the subject, i am usually the 1st to point out a good bird, directing (look im fed up of writing photographer so i will just say 'photo' from now on) 'photo' people where the bird/s are and even the best places to view from to get closer views!!!!!!
i did also not mention that i hate the 'ridiculous lenses that you dislike so much', i have always wanted to own one of those leneses that i dislike so much, so that comment was just out of context and by far the result of jumping to conclusions.
MB

 

[Woodchat]

Hi John
Long time no see. I think Dave W had a Water Rail sighting today, I camped out in the WR hide for 20 mins during my brief vist this morning but heard/saw nowt. 3 Lesser Redpoll showed well on the track near Lifestyles, Shelduck a Lifer for me today. I left around ...5 past :-O

Oh yeah -forgot about the Water Rail - 1 flew across the channel in front of the west hide. Also 2 Rooks over the flashes this morning. Loads of Siskins around (20+ Flashes and ed res plus 3 on moors) and 6 Lesser Redpolls ed res and 3 north moors. 6 Snipes Amy's before they started working. :t:

 

[mike nesbitt]

MB.
Thanks for the reply.
I have no axe to grind with your opinions on photographers, I clearly opened by saying I understood where you were coming from. Personally I'm immune to it all. I'm comfortable with the way I operate so none of it matters to me.
My post was really just to correct your slightly exaggerated perception of the distances involved.
Thanks and best regards.
Mike.

 

[Roger P]

So please wind your neck in and get yourt facts correct before retorting with such nonsense!

I have drafted a long justification but deleted it. Any offence: I apologise.

I have deleted my Op and would be pleased if Jason K would do the same, at least with the quote

 

[Sy V]

No, I think Jason K should be held to account for his hostile and accusatory reply to your level-headed (if somewhat passionate) post.
I for one am growing tired of being looked at as persona non grata, a second class citizen (whose opinion counts for nowt and whose input is unwelcome) and having to explain my preference towards photography. If the stand has to start now, then so be it.

 

[Woodchat]

Just to change the subject from the 'photo people' versus birders debate (very entertaining though it is!), has anyone seen any of the Bitterns in the last few days?

The reason I ask is that we (Gary Prescott and I) found some chewed up feathers on the flashes (by the feeding station) on Saturday which looked like they could've come from a Bittern. Hopefully not - if they were they would've come from a dark (normal colour-phase) bird - Gary said he'd try and get them analysed.

 

[Phil Andrews]

Interesting (although worrying) re potential Bittern feathers at the Flashes - this was the area that one relocated to around the turn of the year.

On a more positive note I am not sure if the Pink-footed Goose was seen today but it is getting very close to the record for the longest staying individual, currently held by one present between 22nd Oct and 6th Nov in 2009.

GBBGs are also having a very productive year with 6 birds seen already. Since accurate recording began in 1984 this figure has only been bettered in 1993 and 2002 (7 birds) and 1996 (11 birds) and we have yet to see the end of January!

 

[midlands birder]

Interesting (although worrying) re potential Bittern feathers at the Flashes - this was the area that one relocated to around the turn of the year.

On a more positive note I am not sure if the Pink-footed Goose was seen today but it is getting very close to the record for the longest staying individual, currently held by one present between 24th Oct and 6th Nov in 2009.GBBGs are also having a very productive year with 6 birds seen already. Since accurate recording began in 1984 this figure has only been bettered in 1993 and 2002 (7 birds) and 1996 (11 birds) and we have yet to see the end of January!

pink footed goose still at the flashes nrth of sewage works.
MB

 

[Phil Andrews]

Thanks for the update Craig - both birds now tied on 16 day stays. Hopefully should be seen tomorrow to break the record; I will be ready to write to Norris McWhirter!

 

[midlands birder]

Thanks for the update Craig - both birds now tied on 16 day stays. Hopefully should be seen tomorrow to break the record; I will be ready to write to Norris McWhirter!

??????
MB

 

[Phil Andrews]

You youngsters - there was nothing like Norris and a tap dancing Roy Castle on "Record Breakers" (although not as good as Roy taking on the Khazi in Carry On Up The Khyber)

 

[Woodchat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by upton-till-i-die
Thanks for the update Craig - both birds now tied on 16 day stays. Hopefully should be seen tomorrow to break the record; I will be ready to write to Norris McWhirter!

??????
MB

Quite clearly before your time, MB. Ahh! the good old days..........:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

Quite clearly before your time, MB. Ahh! the good old days..........:t:

Rather scarily I have just realised that Roy Castle died before MB was even born. Time to reach for the Horlicks and Readers Digest I think .......
:-C:-C:-C

 

[Phil Andrews]

I would like to draw a line under the "Birder vs Photographer" debate that has ensued in the last 48 hours - as stated in post #3456 all unacceptable behaviour by whoever that may harm habitate or the comfort of birds should be challenged. We all share a common purpose, wonder and excitment in what Mother Nature offers us and Upton is blessed in affording visitors of all persussions intimate views of birds that are usually on seen poorly on a distant shoreline or in the middle of a reservoir.

However, can I just elaborate on one of the comments re Snipe counts at the Flashes. Upton is an important site for wintering Common and Jack Snipes and an accurate assessment of their numbers is vital to understand (a) their frequency in the region / country as a whole and (b) how they react to changes in the environment - water levels, amount / length / type of cut vegetation etc. The Flahes is only disturbed on two occasions a month and only between the months of October and March:

(1) As part of the regular monthly work parties we often require access to the eastern shore of the Flashes to undertake work, check the fencing, drive out foxes. We ensure that the Snipes' feeding area is disturbed once and once only (birds normally resettle in the first Flash reedbed or sewage meadow)

(2) As part of the monthly WeBs (Wetland Bird Survey - an international undertaking) counts, usually undertaken by myself. I make a point of announcing to the hide what I am doing and why, and try to minimise disturbance and the time spent when I am out on the reserve; often pointing out Jack Snipe if one is present. Only myself goes out (as opposed to the party of four or five that may have been involved with the previous counter). Such counts are NOT undertaken in freezing weather as the welfare of birds is paramount; clearly Snipe are more vulnerable compared to other species when the ground is frozen. As a result 2 or 3 counts were not undertaken during 2010. No counts are undertaken after mid March when waders that may potentially breed at the Flashes have started to returned. On each WeBS recording day whether a Snipe count is undertaken is not pre-determined but left up to my assessment of the situation on the ground.

If anyone has concerns about the activities of the work parties or the volunteer wardens then myself, John, Dave, Mike, Paul, Stuart, Gert, Des et al would welcome the opportunity to discuss the situation and explain why we undertake certain tasks for the benefit of the reserve.

 

[Woodchat]

Oh, that's a shame - I was quite enjoying that lively debate. Some nicely reasoned, well-balanced views with a fair sprinkling of defensive, bombastic clap-trap! Perfect for lightening up a cold winter's evening.

Seriously, though, Phil - I couldn't agree more with you. The WeBS counts / work parties are very valuable activities. To equate them with disturbing birds just to get the ultimate photo is, quite frankly, shockingly naive.

Now let's move on shall we?

 

[woodwolf]

.

Now let's move on shall we?

Yes, please lets :t:

 

[Jason K]

No, I think Jason K should be held to account for his hostile and accusatory reply to your level-headed (if somewhat passionate) post.
I for one am growing tired of being looked at as persona non grata, a second class citizen (whose opinion counts for nowt and whose input is unwelcome) and having to explain my preference towards photography. If the stand has to start now, then so be it.

Sy, both Roger and I have settled this off the board via private messages and removed the related posts.

I do not take back any thing that I have said on the issue and I certainly dont think my comments were hostile. If you think they were hostile then dont catch me on a bad day

For the record although not a SLR photographer, I am photographer and a birder who has been digiscoping (which is still a branch photography) for a number of years now. A number of my photos are on Birdguides and I have recently had a some photos used in the colour magazine of Butterfly Conservation. So no ...its not them and us..just a dig at the irresponsible few!

Ive said all that I wish to say on this issue and will now let it Lie.

 

[timmyjones]

American Purple Gallinule anyone? When was the last time someone checked through the coot for those white tail coverts?

On a more Upton based note, I managed Willow Tit and Mealy Redpoll locally yesterday been a while since the last Upton records, especially given that the winter so far has been such a good one for Redpolls...

 

[Gertatron]

American Purple Gallinule anyone? When was the last time someone checked through the coot for those white tail coverts?

On a more Upton based note, I managed Willow Tit and Mealy Redpoll locally yesterday been a while since the last Upton records, especially given that the winter so far has been such a good one for Redpolls...

Thank god we're back on birds! - Did you see Willow Tit at Upton as this would be a great find for the reserve.

Cheers